Well at least you don't think like Derrick does. He said in his interview, that he was starting to have a problem with confidence when it came time to race German. That he was thinking that he couldn't beat GF anymore. That should tell you how things have been for CD the last year. But he also said thanks to that guy on Letsrun who dreams of me everynite. :)
Sagarin wrote:
mouse wrote:Sagarin- Though I agree with your point in general, it's worth pointing out that there were far less (any?) time-trial-type races back when Goucher and Davis were freshman.
Yeah, that's a good point, but meets like Mt. Sac were still in existence, with deep, fast competition. By the way, I don't think it was Davis who ran 13:45, but someone else managed that time as a freshman back then. Can't remember who it was it was.
Now the bar has been raised. Sub 13:30 is the new standard.
Don Clary ran 13:45 as a freshman for Oregon in 1976.
Can we all at least agree that Jason Dunn was a good choice to coach the Cardinal? I remember a few folks chirping away in the summer, saying he had no credentials... looks like it's working out pretty well, if you ask me.
SlowDownTurbo wrote:
Well at least you don't think like Derrick does. He said in his interview, that he was starting to have a problem with confidence when it came time to race German. That he was thinking that he couldn't beat GF anymore. That should tell you how things have been for CD the last year. But he also said thanks to that guy on Letsrun who dreams of me everynite. :)
That only shows how much propaganda can affect even an athlete like Derrick who has all the results backing him.
Chris and German are both talented, classy guys. Which a lot more than can be said of a lot of posters here.
German has accomplished a lot: Cal state XC title as a sophmore, shatters course record on famous Cal course, HS 2-mile record, best HS distance double of all-time, World junior record for indoor mile, 7:47.98 indoor 3k, 13:31 in first 5k race, big-10 xc champ as a frosh over a 2 (or 3) time NCAA champion, 2-time junior xc champion.
That's not hype, that's very, very good.
Chris, too, deserves his press and his fan base. Breaks Virgin's long standing XC course record (though slightly different course), 13:55 5k in HS, 7th as true frosh NCAA XC, now he breaks the US junior 5k records by a large amount (though GF was also under the mark by a fair amount.
Both are talented, and both have bright futures. Neither owns the other. Not yet.
Great race by Chris and German. I think the record will come down more. Who does it, that's the question.
German Hype wrote:
That only shows how much propaganda can affect even an athlete like Derrick who has all the results backing him.
Oh, please! I think Derrick's a smart enough kid to know what's "propaganda" and not fall victim to it. He's also smart enough to know his own weaknesses.
After German's State Meet double a year ago, Derrick said something like, "I believe if I was healthy I would be right in there with German in the 2-mile. Under 8:40, closing in on the record. But if you believe I'd be anywhere near a 4-minute mile, you're crazy!"
Derrick knows how good he is, but he also knows how fast 3:55, 3:56 and 7:47 are. After German running those times, then breaking away from Derrick with ease at USA Juniors over 8k, I can see why Derrick was beginning to doubt his own ability to beat German heads-up.
I would say, though, that Derrick's 15th place showing at Worlds indicated that he was really closing ground on German. That had to have been a huge confidence boost.
Catch Me If You Can wrote:
I would say, though, that Derrick's 15th place showing at Worlds indicated that he was really closing ground on German.
If that's the case, based upon the ridiculous predictions that you have made regarding German's 5,000m PR this season, are you now ready to declare that Derrick will run 13:09?
Where can one find the results to this race.
German will go under 13:17 IF he runs 5k at regionals and nats. He may be focusing on the 1500 - I don't know (IDK).
Derrick will go under 13:25.
Luke would go under 13:35 IF he ran the 5k but he may focus on 10k - again IDK.
I wish Colby would get a bit closer to these 3 studs. He wasn't that far away in HS.
Well, I guess 3 at a time is about as rich as it gets for us. So, let's just enjoy it while we can.
yes, Derrick over Fernandez at least for now when it comes to the American Jr 5K record for F-bombs on Flotrack interviews
Billy the Kid wrote:
That's all well and good for Ritz. And my hat's off to him for all his successes over the years.
But remember, Derrick and Fernandez are only 18 years old right now. They also have birthdays late in the year. If you want to think of Ritz as somehow unofficially owning the junior record then you should compare his mark to what Fernandez and Derrick do next year when they will also be 19 yrs old (turning 20 late in the year). I would suggest that next year both of these phenoms will be well under 13:27.
Wrong! At least for German, who has already turned 19 (2/11/1990), so he will be ineligible next year. Regardless, the Junior record determination is arbitrary and unfairly penalizes runner's with birthdays late in the year (like Ritz), who was ineligible as soon as he turned 19, while guys like German have another 10 months to compete as a Junior. Any idea why they don't do the record determination in real time, i.e. age at the time of the race?
That's great, but what's actually more surprising is how long it's taken for junior runners in USA to be running that fast.
Didn't Steve Binns of GBR run 13:27 some 30 years ago? And 35-40 years ago it was Virgin and Prefontaine were running around 13:40 and change?
Meanwhile, East Africans going sub 13.
Just saying -- good, great. Lets hope this opens the floodgates and gets more runners to start running sub 13:20s as 18-19 yr old.
Nice try. Next time you might want to double check your facts first. 2/11/90 is NOVEMBER 2, 1990. German will turn 19 in November of this year.
wayfool wrote:
Billy the Kid wrote:That's all well and good for Ritz. And my hat's off to him for all his successes over the years.
But remember, Derrick and Fernandez are only 18 years old right now. They also have birthdays late in the year. If you want to think of Ritz as somehow unofficially owning the junior record then you should compare his mark to what Fernandez and Derrick do next year when they will also be 19 yrs old (turning 20 late in the year). I would suggest that next year both of these phenoms will be well under 13:27.
Wrong! At least for German, who has already turned 19 (2/11/1990), so he will be ineligible next year. Regardless, the Junior record determination is arbitrary and unfairly penalizes runner's with birthdays late in the year (like Ritz), who was ineligible as soon as he turned 19, while guys like German have another 10 months to compete as a Junior. Any idea why they don't do the record determination in real time, i.e. age at the time of the race?
You are an idiot. Let me guess, you pulled that birthdate from an international website? Maybe one that lists Day/Month/Year? Ritz was born less than 2 months later in the year than Fernandez was. Not that it really matters, because junior records mean nothing compared to senior records/medals, which is hopefully where GF/CD are setting their goals.
Billy the Kid wrote:
German will go under 13:17 IF he runs 5k at regionals and nats. He may be focusing on the 1500 - I don't know (IDK).
Derrick will go under 13:25.
Luke would go under 13:35 IF he ran the 5k but he may focus on 10k - again IDK.
I wish Colby would get a bit closer to these 3 studs. He wasn't that far away in HS.
Well, I guess 3 at a time is about as rich as it gets for us. So, let's just enjoy it while we can.
Man, agreed on Colby Lowe. Poor guy has run sub 14 and just over 29 minutes for the 10k and doesn't even come close to the big 3. Crazy when you think about it. He did come from a high mielage program in HS and I wonder if that is having any effect on him now. He was right there in the mix with the other 3 every time they all raced last year, him and Puskedra were always neck and neck in Track. Hope him (as well as Fout) step it up over the next year and turn it to the Big 5!
edumacator wrote:
You are an idiot. Let me guess, you pulled that birthdate from an international website? Maybe one that lists Day/Month/Year? Ritz was born less than 2 months later in the year than Fernandez was. Not that it really matters, because junior records mean nothing compared to senior records/medals, which is hopefully where GF/CD are setting their goals.
I stand corrected; thanks for pointing out my error. However, I think the we're both in agreement that the Junior designation is arbitrary and in the scheme of things not that important.
As several other posters have noted, German is 18. He won't turn 19 until November 2, 1990. Or 11-2-1990 as US sites might list it, or 2-11-1999 as international sites might list it with day-month-year format.
So German too gets penalized for having a late birthday.
As does Derrick.
I have no idea why the rules are as they are. Maybe they believe that someone with a late birthday probably started training earlier. That might be true, but so what.
It's kind of a stupid rule.
joe M wrote:
Man, agreed on Colby Lowe. Poor guy has run sub 14 and just over 29 minutes for the 10k and doesn't even come close to the big 3. Crazy when you think about it. He did come from a high mielage program in HS and I wonder if that is having any effect on him now. !
I believe his high school program was PAAVO based? At least that's what I remember from these boards.
Agreed. This Junior designation is very arbitrary. And you are totally right, the only things that anyone will care about in the long run are senior records and titles. Here's to hoping that the new big 3 have as much or more success as the "old" big 3.
True, while has hasn't ran as fast he still has room for improvement.
Also, he is running less mileage than Fernandez actually is, so maybe he will close the gap later in the future?
So we have 5 true freshman at sub 14:00 now? Very damn good.