6 by a mile in 4:40 avg - 10k time?

duhada wrote:

If you are you doing 6x1600 @ 4:40 with 4 min rest, you better be running sub 32.

Not necessarily. Our workout is run at 100% vVO2max. A 4:40 mile at that pace corresponds to 5:11/M @ 10K pace (90% vVO2max), or about 32:09 for the full distance.

Skuj wrote:

RD, you may be a semi-successful supertroll, but you are also an idiot. Anyone who does that workout with those rests is much faster than 32mins, but you are not a runner at all, so I guess that explains a few things.

You continue to have me confused with someone else. And see the post above for an explanation of why I would not expect much more than 32:00. I'll be happy to explain it in more detail, if you do not understand what I have written.

I've only got 25 yrs of experience under my belt so there may be some more astute voices around here, but I'm going with 20 seconds per mile slower than his average, putting him at right around 31:00, perhaps slightly faster if he was well within himself at sub 4:40 pace (such as a final mile in 4:34 could suggest). Not sure where some of these 28+ predictions came from.....

the older I get wrote:

I've only got 25 yrs of experience under my belt so there may be some more astute voices around here, but I'm going with 20 seconds per mile slower than his average, putting him at right around 31:00, perhaps slightly faster if he was well within himself at sub 4:40 pace (such as a final mile in 4:34 could suggest). Not sure where some of these 28+ predictions came from.....

Dude....a single 4:40 mile race effort might be 32min 10k shape for many.

reapeat miles at 4;40 with only 70sec rests? I did a 31:09 10k, and I'd be hard pressed to do a few 4:50-somethings with 3-4min rests.

As for JonH/VBC (all the same person - Running Dogg), I don't know how to impress this upon you, but.....

YOU ARE JUST NOT FUNNY....

JonH wrote:

Not necessarily. Our workout is run at 100% vVO2max. A 4:40 mile at that pace corresponds to 5:11/M @ 10K pace (90% vVO2max), or about 32:09 for the full distance.

So, (again, because this IS entertaining afterall!), your 6x1600 workout is at 3000m race pace, is it? And you feel that these VO2max conversaions are valid for Mile to 10k, without taking into account 6x and 70sec rests?

Sure....if I RACE a 4:40, I might RACE a 32. But let's see.....6x, with 70sec rests!!!

So is it NOT FUNNY or entertaining? Damn your an idiot.

assuming everything else is up to par (mileage, recovery, other workouts, etc.), and you have a good race, I'd venture a guess that your range is about 28:40-29:10

the older I get wrote:

I've only got 25 yrs of experience under my belt so there may be some more astute voices around here, but I'm going with 20 seconds per mile slower than his average, putting him at right around 31:00, perhaps slightly faster if he was well within himself at sub 4:40 pace (such as a final mile in 4:34 could suggest). Not sure where some of these 28+ predictions came from.....

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I agree with you about 28mins, but..

The predictor for 5km (which I borrowed off Frank Horwill) is 4 x 1 mile with 90 second rest. The mile average being the 5km pace

So this gives 14.30 for 5km x 2 and add 1 for a 30min 10k

As he did 20 sec less recovery & 2 more I knocked off 30seconds to give 29.30 10km time

70 seconds is a short recovery for mile reps

If your 20 seconds off race was right pace then Bekele could do 6 x 1 mile in 3:54. Even the great man would struggle with that one!

This workout is akin to a tempo session (e.g. Daniel's 'cruise intervals'). 70 seconds is short rest for mile reps.

I would predict if this were a cruise interval type workout, that this guy's race pace would be faster than the workout pace...not slower.

Good gravy, are some of the posters in this thread serious?

There are 32:00 10k guys on my team whose mile PRs are 4:35 or so. If you tried to have them do 6xmile in 4:40 they'd laugh their heads off at you.

I would think that if you could do 6xmile at a given pace with only 70 seconds rest and "feel comfortable" as the OP said he did then you should be able to RACE 10k at a little bit faster than the average pace.

I don't understand how so many letsrunners seem to think racing and training are the same things. Compare the adrenaline to running 6xmile by yourself at some little rinky dink track in the middle of a hard training cycle to putting on your spikes, being fresh, and RACING some really good guys under the lights at Stanford or Mt SAC or a comparable venue.

If you can do 6xmile at a given pace, take only 70 seconds rest, and then you race 20 seconds a mile slower YOU DID THE WORKOUT WRONG. Jeez.

Is the course your racing flat? When is your race? As long as you have enough recovery time between races, you should go sub 29:30. Good luck and let us know how you did.

I think I found the problem with non-elite/sub-elite runners...

They think you should race every workout...

That's the only explanation I can get for why so many of you think that workouts like the one in question translate to such slow times.

Let me ask you a question, using some similar workouts, what should this person run?

7x2km w/ 3min rest avg. 5:38 (4:31 mile pace)

or how about someone running 7x1km in 2:42 w/ 4min rest (4:21 pace)?

E. Lucy Date wrote:

So is it NOT FUNNY or entertaining? Damn your an idiot.

You're an idiot.

dunno wrote:

I think I found the problem with non-elite/sub-elite runners...

They think you should race every workout...

That's the only explanation I can get for why so many of you think that workouts like the one in question translate to such slow times.

Let me ask you a question, using some similar workouts, what should this person run?

7x2km w/ 3min rest avg. 5:38 (4:31 mile pace)

or how about someone running 7x1km in 2:42 w/ 4min rest (4:21 pace)?

Typical letsrun response:

Probably 15:00 for 5k. 4 min rest is basically full recovery and you don't get any recovery in a race, so those 2:42s are probably more like 3:00 ks. I remember when I ran 16:00 I was doing 17xmile in 5:00 with 1 min rest.

torquay wrote:

So i did 6 by 1 mile solo on the track w/70 sec recovery.

4:48 4:39 4:44 4:40 4:36 4:34

Was comfortable, not kicking it down. Can i break 29:00? 28:45?

Windy and humid, 30.01

Skuj wrote:

So, (again, because this IS entertaining afterall!), your 6x1600 workout is at 3000m race pace, is it? And you feel that these VO2max conversaions are valid for Mile to 10k, without taking into account 6x and 70sec rests?

Sure....if I RACE a 4:40, I might RACE a 32. But let's see.....6x, with 70sec rests!!!

I'm not sure exactly what your question is, but I promised to help so I don't want to ignore you. I'm sure I made it clear that my 32:00 prediction was for someone doing 5 x 1M at 100% vVO2max with equal rest. The OP mentioned only times and not what percentage of vVO2max, or race pace, these miles were run at. Thus I chose not to predict a race time for him. Give the fact that his rest was 70", I certainly conclude that his pace was less (slower) than 100% vVO2max. But was it 10K race pace, or marathon pace, or tempo pace, or aerobic efficiency pace, or something else? Unfortunately he did not say.

Hopefully that helped clear things up for you. If not, try asking your question again and I'll do my best to answer.

that repeat mile workout is exactly like one I do several weeks out from a big race....lots of people swear by them

If someone were to run 4x2mile at ~9:35-9:40 average with ~2mins rest is that a harder or easier workout (felt the same at the end as OP)?

Predicting a time off one workout is hard. My guess is if he has never broken 30min for 10K he will run 29:50's. If he has broken 30mins before then he will be around 29:30....If he has broken 29min then he has a shot at ~29:15....Most of the time at the level the OP is at your time is really based on where your body has been before.