[quote]sdasdas wrote:
and its not definite that the Bronco's can draft good players. quote]
actually the funny thing is the Bronco's have been terrible at drafting since 1990...they've only drafted 4 pro bowlers since then and only one of them has been an offensive player (Cutler).
Killa Mike wrote:
Sagarin I see Cutler quite a bit differently than you do, having dealt with Tony Romo for the past couple years.
When I see him brow beat WRs after dropped passes, I see him attempting to hold his teammates to a higher level of accountability...similar to the way Jordan treated his Bulls teammates in the 90s. I think he IS a leader and has all the intangibles necessary to be a super bowl winning quarterback someday. He's not a nice guy....that means nothing to me. Actually I like a guy who's willing to take charge and mix it up. He reminds me quite a bit of a young Troy Aikman.
What I'm afraid you Bronco fans are going to find is that sans Cutler, your team is terrible. As a matter of fact, I can't think of a team in worse shape going forward. No QB, and an apparently incompetent coach that ran off the face of the franchise in an attempt to bring in the noodle-armed Matt Cassel. Answer this question honestly: HOW can this situation the Broncos are in now be better than when the HAD Cutler, Shanahan, and Bates???
Instead you've got a gutless, spleenless guy and a neckbearded career backup and a coach that looks like he should be singing kids songs on Sesame Street.
Look, I'm not debating the fact that this charade never should've happened to begin with or that the Broncos won't be "worse off" for a period of time. That's NOT the debate. I have always questioned Bowlen's move and I never wanted to give up the franchise QB (I certainly have never, would never assert that Orton is anywhere in the same league in terms of raw talent -- he's not). But, what you seem to not even be considering is that Cutler is not proven in the only category that matters -- wins and losses. Even Elway SANS (to borrow your word that I like) defense was able to win EARLY and OFTEN in his career, making the Broncos a perennial playoff contender almost single-handedly. If you actually watched Cutler the last three games of last season, the games that actually MATTERED, you'd know where I'm coming from. Go get your hands on those games and watch Cutler's incompetence.
Most of this guy's prowess was between the 20s. The Broncos are the first team in HISTORY to be in the top five in total offense but not even the top 15 in scoring last year. Sure, some of that is attributable to the lack of a running game, though Peyton Hillis was incredible in the red zone when healthy, but Cutler did not manage the offense well. He is 17-20 in Denver with NO playoff appearances. The pick he threw in the Pro Bowl when he should have thrown the ball away was all too reminiscent of this guy's POOR leadership and decision-making ability in the regular season.
Now, perhaps he will grow into a leader and a competent game MANAGER. I'm NOT saying that he won't. But for you to assert your recognition of leadership when you see it is whimsical and foolish. There is quite a bit of hubbub in Denver that the players themselves were unhappy with Cutler and that had a lot to do with the ways things played out. Makes the fact that Cutler wouldn't even bother to contact some of his teammates in the weeks prior to the trade even more palatable. The jury is still very much out.
Sagarin I feel like you are underestimating how bad Denver's defense was last year. Cutler is 12-1 when the opposition is held to under 21 points.
TWENTY ONE POINTS. Basically all he needed to win a game was the D not to get steamrolled.
I get it, you don't like Cutler's personality. He's a little too hard nosed for Denver anyway, not a great fit for the town. Also I will give you that Shanahan and Bates probably gave him too much control/freedom as a young QB. That probably wasn't the best thing for Denver and it wouldn't be the best thing for the Bears either.
Regardless, Jay will probably lead the Bears to multiple playoff appearances, potentially a Super Bowl. That could have been the Broncos with a little shoring up on the defensive side. I would contend that the worst season an NFL team with Cutler at QB could possibly have is around the 7-9 Denver posted last year.
sadsads wrote:
[quote]sdasdas wrote:
and its not definite that the Bronco's can draft good players. quote]
actually the funny thing is the Bronco's have been terrible at drafting since 1990...they've only drafted 4 pro bowlers since then and only one of them has been an offensive player (Cutler).
are you brain dead or something. The Broncos have had a lot of players they drafted make the pro-Bowl on offense since 1990.
Tom Nalen, Rod Smith (was an undrafted free agent),
Heck Brian Greise was selected, Brandon Marshall, shannon sharpe. Clinton Portis, terrel davis...to name a few.
he was talking about the 1st round specifically.
terelle davis = 5th round
Killa Mike wrote:
Regardless, Jay will probably lead the Bears to multiple playoff appearances, potentially a Super Bowl. That could have been the Broncos with a little shoring up on the defensive side. I would contend that the worst season an NFL team with Cutler at QB could possibly have is around the 7-9 Denver posted last year.
Dude, I AGREE with you here. I am not underestimating how bad the defense was. Everyone in Denver knows the defense was awful. But when it comes to CLOSING the deal in IMPORTANT games, Cutler was and always has been a no show. I don't think you saw him play much last season; probably just perused the box scores. Go watch the tape of the games down the stretch. Forget about the defense. Look at Cutler's stats in THOSE games. As I said, the jury is still out. Perhaps the Bears scheme will prevent Cutler from making big mistakes and hurting himself. There's no question the dude has RAW talent.
FTR, Cutler went 79 for 127 with two TDs and four INTs and an average passer rating of 73.87 in the last three games of 2008, a win in any one of which would have put the Broncos in the playoffs. Of course, you can make stats say whatever you want to. Denver has not played a very difficult schedule for the past three years. I wonder what the W/L record is against teams over .500 or against playoff teams? If you had seen Cutler's lack of heroics at the end of the Buffalo game and his putative immaturity and LACK of leadership during the post-game antics, you'd know where I'm coming from.
But, for the record, the last thing I wanted was a young punk Belichek clone from Bauston, no less, in Denver. I can't stand Massholes, their fans, and I can't stand the slippery, morally-challenged Belicheck. The last thing I wanted was to send Cutler packing. But Cutler was essentially gone from the moment the Broncos fired Shanahan and his protege in Bates. "Trade talks" were a red herring.