$171 for a New York Marathon entry

not expensive: But there is no shopping around for a deal on an NYC entry. It's a monopoly. The seller raised the price to a ridiculous level. The same seller that is getting MILLIONS in sponsorship dollars from the various sponsor companies. Running my "local" marathon is not a substitute.

also cheap: I don't disagree with anything you say, except that your local marathon is not a substitute (is it not 26.2 miles?). If you think NYC or any other race is too expensive, do what I have done, and refuse to run it. I run locally and pocket the difference.

I'd also disagree with "it's a monopoly". Looks, there's freaking hundreds of 'em:

It either is or isn't worth it to any individual runner. I'll eat my oldest dirtiest pair of Corsa Sette if they don't sell out this year and turn thousands away.

P.S. I'll say it again: anyone very put off by logistics might find a way to overnight on Staten Island. Catch a ride to the starting area maybe an hour before the start. As a local I've done this both times I ran it. Of course if you're looking for a NYC tourist experience too, don't stay on Staten Island the whole weekend.

a different posting name wrote:

Dude, if the fee bothers you that much, then DON'T PAY IT! There are lots of marathons out there...no one's forcing you to run NY.

Dude! I'm not paying it. Unlike the OP, I have never had any desire to do NY.

If it bothers you so much that I point out the obvious, don't read it.

not expensive wrote:

It is wrong if you are a not-for-profit organization like the NYRR

You really don't understand how non-profits work if you think this is the case. Again, they put a ton of money back into the elite side of the sport as well. Most of us here on Letsrun think that is a good thing. Money has to come from somewhere. Why not from all the 5+ hour marathoners?

Also, if you think that NYRR is an egregious example of a greedy not-for-profit than you have very little real world experience. Look at what not for profit foundations (educational foundatiosn would be a good place to start) do to raise and spend money.

So, just to clarify, because they're not as bad as OTHER greedy people, then they're good, right?

And if you think that even the majority of that 2.84 million is going back "into the sport", then you're that last person in position to tell anyone else about the "real world"

not expensive wrote:

So, just to clarify, because they're not as bad as OTHER greedy people, then they're good, right?

And if you think that even the majority of that 2.84 million is going back "into the sport", then you're that last person in position to tell anyone else about the "real world"

I don't have a problem with people being greedy. If people are willing to spend $300 to run the mrathon I think NYRR should charge that.

I have not examined in detail the amount of money NYRR puts back into the sport. They did give a lot of money to development groups a few years back and they do give a lot of prize money and appearance money to elites (both American and foreign) not only at the NYC marathon but at other events throughout the year. Is it enough? I don't know, I'd have to examine their books in detail to render an opinion.

If not-for-profits are really compiling huge sums of money and not spending it for their intended purposes (supporting running, or education for educational foundations) than I think the IRS should probably revoke their not-for-profit status--as they threatened to do to some educational foundations, but that is a much larger argument than we can productively have in this forum.

You're really bitter, aren't you? Because you feel the NYRR owes you something and has failed to deliver?

Me, I won't really weigh my feelings about NYRR in my decision to run the race or not. But if you're interested in convincing others, as you seem to be, you might have better luck if you start by breaking down all their revenues and expenses for us. Show us where the money does go. Then you have something to talk about.

I don't understand the appeal of the "mass marathons." Every littlething about the race becomes a huge hassel when you are trying to deal with 20,000 people, uuuhhhh... I ran Boston a few years ago and that was enough of that for me.

Stay home and run an ultramarathon in your region. It's WAY cheaper, a lot more fun, and much more of a physical and mental challenge.

nsmb wrote:

You're really bitter, aren't you? Because you feel the NYRR owes you something and has failed to deliver?

Either that or you are projecting.

But if you're interested in convincing others, as you seem to be, you might have better luck if you start by breaking down all their revenues and expenses for us. Show us where the money does go. Then you have something to talk about.

I am interested in pointing out that NYRR are charging excessively for a race because they CAN. If you are OK with that, then by all means pay that $171 for your entry fee. And next year when it's $200, and the year after that when it's $250, you can smile contentedly knowing that your money is going "back into the sport" (read: some non-runner's pockets).

The fact is, they could probably charge $500 and still get 40,000. It becomes a race for rich people. That's "better" right? Because it's all "going back into the sport", right?

Funny how much better "the sport" was doing when the entry fee was under $50.

If i remember correct, Runningart stayed in Queens. Ultimate penny wise, pound foolish move, and ignored the advice given to him by those in the know. I don't understand why people would train so hard and commit a lot of money and then sacrifice performance for a few sheckles.

It's so much smarter to stay local or in familliar surroundings.

Sir or madam, we all await your analysis of where this money is going, this year or next year or the year thereafter. You plainly have insider knowledge of whose pockets are being lined, but the rest of us are a bit in the dark thus far. As you know, I don't even care; I'm a simple consumer here and the product's either worth it or not. If the race were only $40 but NYRR was gonna use your entry fee to pay for a lap dance, would you be more upset or less?

And there weren't 40,000 entrants, and the whole production had a lot less polish and fewer bells and whistles. But if your true love is for smaller, simpler, cheaper races of yesteryear (entirely understandable - mine might be too, if I couldn't see the marathon route from my bed) why not run a smaller, simpler, cheaper race in another city?

For myself, I like the cheaper, simpler marathons. That hassles and crowds of running with 20,000-40,000 of my closest friends just doesn't appeal to me that much. So I don't care what they charge, but it is purely a value proposition to me. If I found it worth the money and wanted to pay it I would. I don't, so I run smaller races generally.

Manassas Mauler wrote:

If i remember correct, Runningart stayed in Queens. Ultimate penny wise, pound foolish move, and ignored the advice given to him by those in the know. I don't understand why people would train so hard and commit a lot of money and then sacrifice performance for a few sheckles.

It's so much smarter to stay local or in familliar surroundings.

Lesson learned, if I ever run the race again I'll sell the family and stay in Manhattan...:)

Alan

You can stay at a youth hostel on Broadway around 100th in manhattan for about 30 bucks a night.

In Hawaii, you can camp for free (there are free permits) and it is gorgeous and quiet.

Why the $182 for NYC? Well, someone's got to pony up for all those world-wide tours for Mary Wittenberg and all the reports from Beijing and the twitter, and the like. Disgusting to turn running into a rich person's sport. And I probably have to do NYC because it's a double club points race.

It is going into the coffers of the NYRR. It is also going into the salaries and perks of the countless "administrators", corporate, municipal, and "non-profit" who latch on to the marathon revenue stream. It goes wherever big money goes into such an endeavor: Into the pockets of whoever can siphon off their share. Where the hell do you think it's going?

If you dispute this, perhaps you can show us how NYRR is plow at least 4 million dollars more into the running community than the BAA or 3 million more the Chicago marathon organizers. .

Yes, you said that already. For someone who doesn't care, you certainly are showing a quite a bit of interest in the matter.

I care enough to make a simple point and defend it against non-arguments. You see, I'm a simple consumer here too. I also decided it isn't worth it a long time ago, when the price was much lower. Yet I have no problem with pointing out the simple economics of $171 x 40,0000. Why are you so upset about this?

Less. Because it would be only $40 and wouldn't be close to making the cost prohibitive for so many people.

If I were then to point out on LetsRun that the $40 were going for lap dances, would you be more upset or less?

They actually make MORE money with the 40,000 entrants, not less. Please tell me you at least understand that. It is an economy of scale. The difference in cost to the NYRR between 20,000 and 40,000 runners is NOTHING compared to the extra money they make.

That is why it is so obvious that they are doing this merely for more profits. Chicago makes plenty of money with a much lower entry fee. Boston makes plenty of money with half the entrants and a lower entry fee.

My true love is for the race that doesn't cost almost $200 and for plainly identifying the argument that tries to bullshit me about how that extra $100+ is somehow helping running in the US.

"big spender", here's a start...a quarter-million dollars for OD...I didn't find anything like this at BAA Boston or BofA CM site:

>NYRR Champion's Circle

>New York Road Runners has reserved a limited number of >guaranteed entries for the ING New York City Marathon >2009 through the NYRR Champion's Circle. Marathon entries >will be given to the first 100 people who apply and >donate $2,500. Donating now secures your entry for 2009. >This donation helps NYRR support U.S. post-collegiate and >Olympic development training groups around the country as >part of its community service mission.

And, with my language carefully chosen here, though I have never been a recipient of any largesse, I would not be surprised if I were to see hard evidence that NYRR quietly offered substantial elements of support to up-and-coming athletes, financially and otherwise (excluding appearance fees and travel allowances).

Full disclosure: In the past I have been eligible for comp entry into the ING NYCM. I have always paid my entry fee in full. I plan to pay in full this year as well.

It's not an NYRR double points race.

You're a loser. NYRR has done more for the sport than USATF or anyone else. Sometimes that takes spending money.

it's funny how uniformed the majority of these posts are on both sides.

All non-profit tax filings are public information, like many public organizations. Unlike a lot of corporate filings they are simple enough to read that most of the posters here should be able to understand them. Take a look at the 2007 form 990 for the NYRR. From the looks of it none of the directors of the organization are lining their pockets. Also race expenses are a huge portion of their budget. Also it's not completely clear that they spend lots of money on promoting the sport. It's just expensive to run such a large organization.

If you think otherwise maybe you should report them to the IRS. Otherwise stop moaning about price gouging and lining of pockets.

big spender: If I were then to point out on LetsRun that the $40 were going for lap dances, would you be more upset or less?

My combative amigo, I haven't been one whit upset thus far, so the only way to go is up. But I rather think I'd hold steady at zero upsetedness, actually.

In touchy-feely terms none of us like to resort to here or even admit to ourselves, most of us aren't fundamentally trying to attack you so much as to help you. People are trying to give you some perspectives which could serve you, e.g. by allowing you to choose the race you really want to do and let go of your obsession with this other race you can't afford, and the people behind it, both of which seem to stir you up quite a bit.

Since you refuse that help, those of us so inclined can still join hands and sing new age-y campfire songs, secure in the joy that we've still helped you - by providing the fights you desire. Ah, teamwork.

You're quite welcome, my brother.

That's all from me on this thread (though I strongly suspect we've met on others and will dance again in the future).

Parting thoughts: Yoga. Debate lessons. Either would help; with both you'd be formidable.