Manhattan Track Club is the power. Just mucho wanna bes trying to rain on their parade.
Manhattan Track Club is the power. Just mucho wanna bes trying to rain on their parade.
the power of what? where are they in the standings?
What standings? Club Points? Come on Jonesy. I think CPTC is a great team for a lot of reasons.
#1- They have a solid top group (guys like Dambrowski are as talented as anyone on MTC. Wasn't he a Footlocker Finalist? And they have more 4:10 milers then the MTC. They should be beating MTC upfront)
#2- They have a complete track team
#3- They have a great NYC presence
#4- They have a lot of people that increase the fun social aspect of the team
HOWEVER, to say "where is MTC in the rankings" is pretty absurd. They would crush CPTC if they wanted to, week in and week out, all year long. And anytime they run a full squad, or are told not to hold back, they do. If MTC decided one day to not focus on track or cross, and instead just decided to run NYRR races, they would dominate (unless Westchester decided to do the same). They're just better trained then CPTC.
To say otherwise is plain old ignorant with respect to New York running.
As Conto mentioned, he chooses not to have the numbers like CPTC. And half of his guys are milers. Why would you have a miler run 10ks, half marathons and the like in the middle of a track season? You wouldn't. And if you hold out those guys, I'm not sure if they would even have enough guys to field a team.
has to be said Conto is an a very annoying little fcuk head.
I love it..."They would crush CPTC if they wanted to, week in and week out, all year long."
Oh so it's a matter of MTC just wanting to do well. Of course. They could've easily won the USATF xc meet, but they didn't want to. They could've had six guys under 14:00 in track, but they didn't want to.
Show me the great MTC results from track or xc. I don't recall MTC setting the world on fire at the USATF club championships, either on the track or in cross. They're a pretty good local running club, but they need to stop pretending they're world-beaters.
you're right, dambkowski is a talented guy, close to 9 for 3200 in high school, i think, didn't run most of his years at stanford, but came back to run 30:48 10k on the track this year (i.e. not a 29 minute guy like dusen), and likely to be considerably better in the next couple of years, ohlsson at 40 just ran 25:40s at club champs, and there are other talented guys. but a lot of the fastest guys on cptc concentrate on track and some of those that were in club champs (low mileage guys who had peaked in july and taken it easy since then) were running after their seasons had ended. roberts, for instance, was a sub-15 5k guy this year and ran over 26 at club champs, a month after his season ended. the non-track guys focus on marathons, not 5M and 10k, and they will have ten or fifteen guys at nyc in the 2:30s and 2:40s.
I just want to mention that I don't think bubbagumpandco has anything to do with my team, though thanks for the props man.
I would hardly say we could beat CPTC any time we wanted, or whatever he said. As a matter of fact, I did NOT think we would beat them at this years Club Champs.
They're a talented crew that works hard and contrary to what someone said on here, they do PR quite often. Look at the 2007 Healthy Kidney race from last year. They ran phenomenal. Guys were PRing through 5 miles and then holding on for another mile.
We haven't done a lot from a Nationals perspective in track or cross. Cross this past year was arguably our best team, and we ran I would say relatively well, but that meet has gotten infinitely deeper in the last 5 years. 19th last year was no where near equivalent to 19th the year before. Regardless, it was not what we wanted.
I hope this year is better. Having our number 1 guy not run a marathon within a month of the race will help. Though our last year #1 has been out for some time now, and I don't know if he'll be able to come back.
On the track I am very pleased to say that a lot of my guys have run either faster than they ever have, or faster than they did for years before being coached by me. For now, I'll take that.
Anyway, I maintain that running all the NYRR club Points races just don't work for us. We don't have enough guys to make it a priority. As bubba said, it doesn't make sense to have an 800 guy and a bunch of milers race on a Thursday night and then come back with a 4 miler, 5 miler, 10k or half marathon on a saturday or Sunday and then race a mile the next week.
I think we're pretty good on a NYC level. We could be good at a National level (Club Cross) if all the chips fall into place. But there are about 20-25 teams in the country who can say that, and we haven't done anything yet to break into that top 10.
To me, that is when you can consider yourself pretty good. If we can do that, finish behind Westchester at NYRR Champs, and run PRs in the spring, CPTC can retain the title of best road racing team in the city... which they are.
M
All this is good for NYC. Keeps New Yorkers excited, active and healthy. Different teams/clubs have different objectives. The top WTC runners are trying to make some cash so Mike Barnow can only get them in a race or two without prize money, CPTC provides an opportunity for athletes of all abilities to train and be competitive at the local level so their coaches will race them to the ground with none qualifying for the Olympic trials, Manhattan Track Club is trying to get it's act together as described by Conto who almost singlehandedly keeps things going. The NYAC women have injected some excitement and raised the bar with Lesley Higgins making it to the Olympic Trials and another qualified for the 10k last year. CPTC, MTC, WTC are nowhere at the National non-club level, they are Elite Development Clubs but so far not developing athletes to the elite or even sub-elite level (compared to other EDC's like ZAP, Invaders, etc).
What's lacking is a NYC program that gets an athlete to the national or international level but again that may not be the objctive of most/or all the NYC clubs. The sad part is that the NYRR poured thousands to support programs far from NYC. How about supporting an elite group in NYC?
that's a good idea. none of the clubs, other than wtc, has elite distance runners.
however, your facts are wrong. in the past, cptc has qualified 15 runners for the olympic trials.
Who are the 15? Here are their all-time best times and not one male on the track comes close to a B qualifier. Are you counting the marathon times from the 70s? The 1 woman who qualified in the marathon in 2004? As others have stated, they are fine for a local club, but, considering all the Nike money that gets dumped on them and that they have full-time coaches on the payroll, not to have a single Trials qualifier in 2008 is pathetic.
You all sound so unpleasant and petulant (perhaps except for Conto). Is the New York Club scene really this dickish?
"babies," the NYC club environment is not this dickish at all. It's overwhelmingly cordial but with few sane exceptions, you're only hearing from the dicks here.
Which club is "the best?" By amazing coincidence, less than 2 weeks ago, the NYRR provided a mechanism to determine the answer in the only truly objective way -- by having a footrace.
Any woulda-coulda-shoulda, "I wasn't trying in this one" or "I have a hard job" stuff is just chatter to make someone feel better about him/herself.
Important disclosures:
- I am a member of the NYAC.
- I have numerous friends spread among many NYC clubs.
- I finished 99th by chip timing in the men's race in 27:47 (and probably somewhere around 105-110th by actual order of finish, gun time of approx 27:55, which is what should matter IMO).
I think he is referring to the masters runners that get to run the exhibition races at the Trials. I heard about a CPTC guy bragging about their trials qualifiers this year.... turns out he was talking about the two men in the masters 3000m.
Lego My Eggo wrote:
Who are the 15? Here are their all-time best times and not one male on the track comes close to a B qualifier. Are you counting the marathon times from the 70s? The 1 woman who qualified in the marathon in 2004? As others have stated, they are fine for a local club, but, considering all the Nike money that gets dumped on them and that they have full-time coaches on the payroll, not to have a single Trials qualifier in 2008 is pathetic.
http://www.centralparktc.org/besttimes.php
This is so true, NYRR distributes money around the country to training groups like ZAP, McMillian Elite, Tempo Sports, etc., yet they have zero support for local Americans. There is local road money here and there, but that usually gets swallowed up pretty quickly by the pocket of Africans just outside the city. NYRR keeps claiming that there is going to be local support coming soon, but that claim has been rolling off their tongues for over a year, if not longer. I am not sure if they are waiting for a ZAP type group to accumulate in NYC or if they are dragging their feet for other reasons, but a ZAP type group will never form in NYC without the support existing first, because no one can afford to live in NYC without a fulltime job, and that pretty much destroys the ability to train fulltime. It's a chicken or the egg type of situation. If NYRR really wants NYC to be "the greatest running city," they need to make it a great place to live and train, rather than sending money to ZAP and requiring them to post blogs on the NYRR website and come up periodically for races. That stunt just proves that NYC is NOT a very good running city, but rather more like JogTown.
Notme wrote:
What's lacking is a NYC program that gets an athlete to the national or international level but again that may not be the objctive of most/or all the NYC clubs. The sad part is that the NYRR poured thousands to support programs far from NYC. How about supporting an elite group in NYC?
"not a pro, not even close" wrote: "no one can afford to live in NYC without a fulltime job, and that pretty much destroys the ability to train fulltime"
You are sort of providing the counter-argument also; take it one step further down the logic path.
Assuming that financial resources for "development" have a limit (and they do), the development funds will stretch further at a place outside the NYC area...like Boone, Minneapolis, and even Mammoth -- meaning more people can benefit, and to a greater extent, from being on the dole in those places than in ultra-expensive NYC.
If I was going "full-time runner" and had a choice, I would rather train someplace other than Manhattan (abt 11 miles of trails on the island, that I've found anyway)?
In fact, when I was a full-timer for a bit in the 1990s, that's exactly what I did -- moved to Athens, Georgia.
Is Warren Street still signing up Africans at the last minute to run these Championships like they did in the good old days? Is there still a Warren Street?
i don't know about other cities, but nyrr puts on races of varying distances on nearly every weekend of the year; i think it skips easter. except for nym and nyc half, members pay no more than $25. that makes it a pretty good running town.
as a 50+, i love the club races even though i am way back because i know that most of the top 50+ guys will be there. mike's right in saying they're not ideal in building a racing year, but for someone like me, they make the racing year more enjoyable and challenging.
of course if you cannot be anything but 'jogtown' unless you have a stable of elites, that's nyc's fate. my guess is that nyrr thought long and hard on the question before sending its money elsewhere.
and warren street remains one of the better clubs, although as a member i'm biased. it's a good group. so are the other clubs i know.
Yes I am aware that I am providing my own counter-argument.None of this would matter if Mary herself didn't express her desire to make NYC the greatest running town in the country. She eagerly embraces elites from all over the place who come in to race (and usually she pays for them to come in and race) and vigorously supports locals who show glimpses of national-level promise, but only in spirit. If she wants her own home-grown elites, there needs to be local $upport. If she doesn't want her own home-grown elites, then NYRR should just keep doing what it's doing.Manhattan has all the elements of a great place to train: multiple tracks, varying terrain in CP, Riverside, Esplanades, the near-by Rockies, VCP and the trails just over the GW Bridge. The only thing it is missing is the ability to exist in it.What Manhattan really needs is a Home Depot situation. They need companies that will pay runners full-time salaries to work part-time & train. Not sure why this so hard to come by in NYC, there is no shortage of corporations.
Joseph McVeigh wrote:
"not a pro, not even close" wrote: "no one can afford to live in NYC without a fulltime job, and that pretty much destroys the ability to train fulltime"
You are sort of providing the counter-argument also; take it one step further down the logic path.
Assuming that financial resources for "development" have a limit (and they do), the development funds will stretch further at a place outside the NYC area...like Boone, Minneapolis, and even Mammoth -- meaning more people can benefit, and to a greater extent, from being on the dole in those places than in ultra-expensive NYC.
If I was going "full-time runner" and had a choice, I would rather train someplace other than Manhattan (abt 11 miles of trails on the island, that I've found anyway)?
In fact, when I was a full-timer for a bit in the 1990s, that's exactly what I did -- moved to Athens, Georgia.
I have no idea who were the 15 olympic trials qualifiers, but it says on their benefit invitation, "[o]ver the years, 15 members of the club have qualified for the Olympic Trials and one for the Olympic Games." it's possible that some qualified before joining the club? pretty sure that nabie fofanah, a foreign sprinter, is the one in the olympic games (this year).
There are Home Depot's in Manhattan.