Chicago Distance Classic - Course long?

Yeps wrote:

Hey John... wrote:

You should make sure your certifier measures what was actually run and not the map.

That's the key. My guess is they have no clue of what was actually run now.

From his reply, it sounds like they did just that:

"In addition, we had the certifier lead the pack on his bicycle to ensure that all the athletes went on the correct course. "

Absolute disgrace. I traveled across the country to run this race. This is a large road race used as a last chance qualifier for the Chicago Marathon corrals.

I feel for the the guys trying to get into the Top 100 program.

This should not of happened.

The hairpin turn with sand on it was unreal. How much effort would it have been to sweep the sand away? I literally had to stop and walk around that turn.

I will never again run a road race from the Penguin. His comment at the start of the race about 'why would you want to run fast, you pay for 4 hours' was a slap in the face for the athletes that came here to run fast.

Obviously the Penguin only cares about fun runners who don't care about short or long courses.

JimG wrote:

Yeps wrote:

That's the key. My guess is they have no clue of what was actually run now.

From his reply, it sounds like they did just that:

"In addition, we had the certifier lead the pack on his bicycle to ensure that all the athletes went on the correct course. "

Yes, the lead athletes. How big was the gap between the lead group and the rest of the pack?

don't get your hopes up for the re measurement either...the person measuring will most likely just do the same thing as the map....how in the world do you not just get a wheel out and specifically measure the thing?

AltoCinco wrote:

... John Bingham racing...

Isn't that a statement that contradicts itself?

Thought I'd mention the other responsible party -- Beth Salinger. She also directs the Hospital Hill Half Marathon in Kansas City, and she definitely does not care about runners -- just joggers, and a sideshow of Africans who she brought in to break the course records for the sake of entertainment and her own ego. But it didn't happen -- ha, ha, Kansas City weather is a b#$ch, isn't it.

It is just too bad for all those who trained for this race, to not have it live up to there basic expectations of having an accurate course. Given all the options out there, it is time for all runners (fast, slow or penguin) to make a statement with our wallets and not participate or compete in sub-par events.

Folks,

I understand your disappointment and concerns. To suggest, however, that any of us don't "care" is just silly. We do care about all the participants and are working very hard to get this worked out.

He will remeasure the course today, Tuesday. If indeed, as we all now suspect, it's long then all times will be adjusted to reflect the error.

I have spoken to the organizers of the Chicago Marathon and asked that they accept the adjusted times, if it comes to that.

The reason courses are certified is to avoid this very situation. In fact, we had him be the lead vehicle to make SURE the course was accurate.

It's unfortunate. I appears now that he may have made an honest mistake. If so, the adjusted times should solve the problem.

So, in the end no one's hard work will go unrewarded. How about ratcheting back the nasty rhetoric just a bit and let us get this right.

Thanks,

John

John Bingham wrote:

How about ratcheting back the nasty rhetoric just a bit and let us get this right.

Thanks,

John

How about ratcheting back you ignorant "take your time and get your money's worth" shtick a lot and get it right the first time....like you were paid to do.

You charged $75 for a race. $75 and two days after the fact you can't even say how long the course is?

How in the hell, charging that price, can you screw up the most important part of the race? Though you try and act like it isn't important, the majority of the participants in RACES are there to compete and that is more important to them then t-shirts, medals and cute speeches.

Nobody is telling you that you can't make a living, but if you are more interested in holding "events", just announce it as a fun run so those concerned about their running and times can avoid it.

I went to this page:

http://www.usatf.org/events/courses/search/searchResults.asp?lastName=Marquez&firstInitial=Neyl

I see previous courses for the CDC, but this years course is not listed.

I saw the number was IL – 08064 – JW. Why is that not listed? Is there another page?

The latest.

It appears that the course was certified to the 4th pole NORTH of Science Drive, but he wrote "4th pole SOUTH" on the certification document. He didn't realize the mistake even when he rode the course.

We will get the EXACT distance and ask the timers to do a global adjustment.

We will forward the exact distance of the error to the organizers of the Chicago Marathon. They have assured me that they will make individual adjustments, as necessary.

I am sorry for the confusion and reject the suggestion that we put on "fun runs". Those who work hard deserve to be rewarded for their efforts, no matter what time that effort yields.

John

The course certifier is acknowledging that the turn around is off by 0.1668 miles. He is therefore marking the course at 13.2762 miles.

I am communicating with him to make sure that this should not be 2*0.1668 miles which would be the logical error.

John

MR. BINGHAM,

I suggest instead of putting announcements just on letsrun message boards you put this information on your website. I know you want to stop the bad rap your race is getting but it seems unprofessional to write 3 different post yet not make an official announcement on your website. just remember not all of the runners got to letsrun.com every day and check out the message-boards. Also next time you better lower your race fee after this!

A couple of my friends and I did purposely skip the CDC this year, because of how terrible the course was last year. It had the same hairpin turn on gravel, but also had a winding maze over the course of the last mile. It was a terrible course, and the extremely hot weather made it even worse. (Not that the weather is the fault of anybody!)

I think that it is pretty obvious that Penguin events are geared towards the average or back of the pack runner. And to a point, that's fine. But it doesn't have to come at the expense of alienating faster, more competitive runners. Wondering why anybody would run fast when they paid for 4 hours on the course is outright insulting.

People run for different reasons. Some people run to see how fast they can get, and some run just to participate or achieve a goal. Neither group should be minimized or thought less of.

If the Penguin truly wants to make this a race that everybody likes, he is going to have to acknowledge and accommodate the faster people out there.

The banter about "fast women" at the finish line was uncalled for.

A very unfortunate situation but I do appreciate Bingham acknowledging the problem. It's unacceptable that a certified course would have this type of error but mistakes happen. It seems like they are doing the right thing by getting the correct measurement. This will certainly make me think twice about entering it next year but that's the beauty of choices.

To those getting their panties in a bunch over the lack of respect shown at the starting line , don't be so defensive. It was a joke and it was funny. He was making sure the 13m/milers were at the back of the pack to avoid getting trampled and to administer the new wave start when he said something like "you paid for four hours of support so why'd you ever want to run it faster is beyond me. We won't let you run it twice." If this irks you so much I can only imagine what the 'pencil-necked distance rods' comments did to you in HS.

i think everything to hammer bingham on has been done to death on here.

Its been the same thing since he has come to town the last few years.

the best insult is as he led a training group he verbally crapped on the guys who were out to do a specific workout while calling them "the split short guys". I though the owner who sponsors the racing team and let him bring the waddlers in was going to lose it.

i think its great he gets new runners into the sport but his dont compete, whether its with anyone else or just with yourself, is an awful attitude.

Looks as if he should compete with other events in chicago to get better.

John Bingham wrote:

We will get the EXACT distance and ask the timers to do a global adjustment.

What does that mean? Will a set time (say 60 seconds) be deducted globally (whether from 1:10 runners or 3:10 runners)? Will a formula be used whereby the adjustment will be based on the runner's actual average pace? Will these adjusted times be the 'official' times or just equivalent to chip times (unofficial)?

From the course certifier:

"John,

I verified the turnaround and overrun distance, per my mistype on the

Chicago Distance Classic Half marathon certification turnaround point

description, last night Monday 08/11/2008 around 7:15 PM.

Here are the results of my finding:

The turnaround point was extended approximately ~.1668 of a mile (~880

feet = ~268 meters) per my mistype of the turnaround point on the

course description. It should have read: Turn around: Lakefront Trail

(LFT), 40' 7'' South of 4th light pole (W) NORTH of N.E. corner of

Science Dr. and Lakeshore Drive. With that, the complete half

marathon distance of 13.1094 miles was extended approximately ~.1668

of a mile to ~13.2762 miles.

As the error elongated the course and did not shorten it, there should

not be a need to remove the course from the certified courses list

and replace it with a new course and number. I will make the

correction on the course map description and send it forward to USAT&F

(copied on this email: Jay Wight) to be filed as the correct certified

course so that if this course is run in the future it can be laid out

correctly.

I apologize for this mistype and any problems it has caused. I take

full responsibility that my mistype of the turnaround point

description caused misplacement by course officials of the turnaround

point on race day and extended the length of the race.

Please let me know if there is any other information you need from me,

or anything else I can help with to clarify further.

My sincerest apologies,

Neyl A Marquez"

We are now working with the Marathon and the timers to see how to best handle the qualifying times.

John