Predict the Tour de France winner.

The only thing I don't get about the team concept is the absolute necessity of having someone on your team help you.

Can't you just leech off the other teams and get pulled by them?

People always seem to act like there is some force field around other teams that only allows team members to benefit.

You hear the same thing in track racing as well.

Whenever I see some guy sacrificing himself for a teammate, I think the competition should just note that and ride that ****er like a show pony.

I'm sure that would cause outrage. Too bad. That's racing.

Eli Lilly will win again. He wins every year.

SMJO wrote:

People always seem to act like there is some force field around other teams that only allows team members to benefit.

Excellent point. The one problem that Evans might have had (concerning Lotto being weaker than CSC) is that if he had a bad day on one of those big climbs, he would not have had a teammate to help him (reduce his losses), which Sastre or F Schleck would have. Remember Kirchin when he lost the yellow jersey? No teammates made it all the more difficult for him. I seem to recall also, that way back in 2003, Ullrich got dropped on Alpe duez but had Klodden to help him, or it might have been another mountain top finish. Andreas also received help up the ju plaix in '06.

On another subject: I pick Andy Schleck to win the tour next year. Very strong in the mountains.

Andy Schleck is a doper. He looks way too comfortable at the top of the mountains, and he's had the legs to attack and counter-attack every day.

All the more reason why he'll win next year.

SMJO wrote:

The only thing I don't get about the team concept is the absolute necessity of having someone on your team help you.

Can't you just leech off the other teams and get pulled by them?

People always seem to act like there is some force field around other teams that only allows team members to benefit.

You hear the same thing in track racing as well.

Whenever I see some guy sacrificing himself for a teammate, I think the competition should just note that and ride that ****er like a show pony.

I'm sure that would cause outrage. Too bad. That's racing.

Also you have scenarios such as on alpe d huez where a guy such as Sastre makes a break. When this happens team Csc are able to just sit back and do nothing as their is no point chasing a team mate. This is where a man like Evans would benifit from having a team mate to set a strong constant pace for as long as possible to make the gap as small as possible before leaving it to Evans. What we saw was Evans sit on other guys and have too repeatedly chase down attacks etc which made the pace slow and helped Sastre gain a huge lead. (You can not always rely on the guys around you to set a strong pace to chase down a break)

In the end Evans was doing the work on his own but with a team mate setting the pace Evans could have sat on him at a stronger pace and Sastre would probably have a smaller lead.

Be strong when it counts. wrote:

SMJO wrote:

The only thing I don't get about the team concept is the absolute necessity of having someone on your team help you.

This is where a man like Evans would benifit from having a team mate to set a strong constant pace for as long as possible to make the gap as small as possible before leaving it to Evans.

Yep, good explanation for mountain stages.

Raod cycling is sooo much about team AND individualists, this is why I like it so much.

Another mountain-stage aspect: Schumacher getting polka-dot jersey points to take them away from his team-mates' competitors.

I could go on and on -- but this being a running forum it's probably enough to just point out that even kenyan and ethiopian track teams don't even come close.

When they allowed radios between riders and directeur sportif the tension dropped. This year subtle changes like when the riders in an attack group are announced over Radio Tour made a huge impact. Or when the time distance to the peloton gets announced. And so on, and so on.

I really liked that!

I also think getting rid of the time bonus was a great move.

This year we had again sprinters, "classics riders", mountain riders, but none of the superhumans-extraterrestials.

I agree there is not much that can be done if someone like Sastre gets away and his team mates back off. Short of just going with him as we saw with Contador and Rasmussen last year.

Probably one of the best things they could do would be to have three TT stages. One flat, one technical rolling and one mountain one. Make them all longer too. Then those individual qualities would be tested in less of a team setting.

idiot wrote:

Andy Schleck is a doper. He looks way too comfortable at the top of the mountains, and he's had the legs to attack and counter-attack every day.

Then he needs some better dope, because he couldn't follow Ricco.

Even Sastre's time up Alpe d'Huez this year was slower than previous times by dopers Pantani, Armstrong, and others. Andy Schleck was over 2 mins slower than Sastre.

So your point is that the contenders this year were riding clean. That's a huge step forward.

I don't know if they're riding 100% "clean". Obviously some of them weren't. But if they are juicing then it would seem the return on investment is less than it used to be. Ordinarily with the technology advances in equipment you'd expect times to get faster with years, especially on climbs and in time trials. Right now we're not seeing that.

In any case, yes, I think this year's Tour has marked a huge step forward. Nobody has been invincible and it's been more exciting than in many years.

SMJO wrote:

I agree there is not much that can be done if someone like Sastre gets away and his team mates back off. Short of just going with him as we saw with Contador and Rasmussen last year.

Probably one of the best things they could do would be to have three TT stages. One flat, one technical rolling and one mountain one. Make them all longer too. Then those individual qualities would be tested in less of a team setting.

Actually, what was so amazing about CSC on Alpe d'Huez was that the Schlecks didn't just back off. They knew Evans is uncomfortable with a stop-and-go tempo and that they could tire him by making constant attacks and then dropping back. Any runner knows that even effort is the most efficient and that's what Sastre was able to do up the Alp. Sastre is a good climber but he's not explosive like Pantani or Rasmussen (even if they weren't chemically aided) and in a mountain time trial I'm not sure he would beat Evans.

Without his team, it's very unlikely that Sastre would have been in yellow now. And what's extra great about his win is that for so many years he was a lieutenant for Hamilton and Basso on CSC until he finally nailed it. I feel much better about his win than Contador's last year which I believe was tainted.

What caught my attention was that Sastre had been completely under the radar before the mountain stages. That seemed strange and indicated that it was probably part of a deliberate strategy.

And then all of a sudden, on Monday, Sastre was 49 seconds behind the leader, who was his own teammate. So I knew something was up. I expected Sastre to have a big day on l'Alpe d'Huez and that his superior team would help him put distance on Cadel Evans. The fact that Frank Schleck was in the yellow jersey and that his brother Andy was able to accelerate almost at will after O'Grady and Cancellara had forced the pace early on had to get inside Cadel's head. Team CSC wore out Cadel physically and psychologically. Sastre's teammates did all the work. And in the time trial on Saturday, Sastre was ready and rested, whereas Cadel was flailing. That's what I saw on Monday.

Maybe someone else who knows more about this can fill me in, but what exactly was Popovych doing in the Alps? I thought he was brought into Evans' team, at great expense according to the commentary, to help him in the mountains. Then the day before the big climb he was ahead of Evans challenging for the victory, unsuccessfully as it turned out. Then the next day, when Evans really needed him, he was nowhere to be seen, presumably too tired to keep up after his efforts the previous day. Perhaps I've got an over-simplistic view of this and someone can correct me.

I enjoyed seeing that dude miss the turn and go over the side of the mountain. Cool.

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Even Sastre's time up Alpe d'Huez this year was slower than previous times by dopers Pantani, Armstrong, and others. Andy Schleck was over 2 mins slower than Sastre.[/quote]

I believe that it wound up being the 17th fastest time up the alpe, according to cyclingnews. I understand that some of those faster times came during the TT a few years ago which is a lot different then starting it after already two HC mtn passes, but I think this shows what a difference it is now that doping controls are so much better (we hope).

Just out of curiousity, I wonder what Ricco would have recorded, would have been a good comparison.

Neither Schleck will ever win due to the fact that they are just not good enough time trialers. They lose too much time to be in the running. I like the look of Vandevelde next year. He just needs a little work on the mountains and I think he is in the running. Also Kohl showed he can ride the time trial I have to think he can do something next year.

Blown Away wrote:

Neither Schleck will ever win due to the fact that they are just not good enough time trialers. They lose too much time to be in the running. I like the look of Vandevelde next year. He just needs a little work on the mountains and I think he is in the running. Also Kohl showed he can ride the time trial I have to think he can do something next year.

I agree. Kohl and VdV have a great shot next year. The one thing they both need is a strong team around them. They are both cooked in the mountains because they are by themselves while CSC plays games all around them. Garmin should be able to get some $$$ with their good showing this year. Maybe Levi swings over from Astana? Who knows.

one thing that surprised me this year was the Hincapie wasn't more help for Kirchen. He is normally able to do some pretty good work in the mountains but early on this year he didn't do much. I would like to see him hop over to Garmin and help Vendevelde. I personally like to see a team with a lot of Americans riding well instead of an american team with only one american.