Ryan Hall vs Bill Rodgers

Runningart2004 wrote:

Hall is 2 minutes or more behind the best in the world right now.

While I agree with some of your points, that's not quite right. The London field was a top class field with the world record holder at the time in the race. He finished 43 seconds behind the winner, and 18 second behind the Tergat. Your statement would be more accurate if he had run 2:09 high in that race. He wasn't chasing the world record or the WR + 2 minutes, he was racing the field. From the the available evidence - his performance in his only two marathons - I think he can hang with any top class field and be less than 2 minutes (or better) back of the winner unless he has an off day - and we should grant everyone an off day, seeing as Gebressalassie has had some too as a marathoner.

I opened this discussion so here's my two cents.

When comparing their looks, you have to admit they sort of do look alike:

Rodgers

http://www.juanjosemartinez.com.mx/seko/Seko_Boston79.jpg

I'll buy a beer for the first person who can guess the others in this classic pic?

Hall

http://www.runningnetwork.com/images/other/HallUSATFCrossCountry06.jpg

People remember who wins major events not what their time was, Bill had a knack for finding a way to win, period. His records will stand the test of time. Ryan is fast but can he win against tough international competition? Like others in this thread it is exciting for me to see a young runner come along who reminds me of Bill Rodgers. I fondly remember listening to Boston Marathon radio coverage on WBZ (in Maine) they were calling Bill, 'Will' Rodgers. It was exiting to hear them say, "he has stopped to tie his shoe but remains on record pace". Not sure how many magazine covers, Sports Illustrated, Runners World etc Bill Rodgers was featured on but he brought main stream running home. Lets hope Ryans contributions will be as big.

here are two classic covers:(they are tiny but you get the point)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/2002/jinx/70s/103078sm.jpg

http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/pict/200159192354_1.jpg

cheers

gary

i dont drink beer but leading is dick mahoney, rodgers in cap, toshieko seko and #7 is don kardong.

Garry Bjorklund

Dick Mahoney

T. Seko

Bill Rodgers

Don Kardong

we have a winner! DK I'll be in Boston over new years to pay up...actually I'll be on the same road as seen in the picture on 1-1-08 between 6am and 9:30 ish...come run with me!

gary

while on this, anyone besides me think that because of the US boycott of the Moscow Olympic games that Boston Billy missed a golden opportunity? He was tough as nails then, on top of his game. Just saw on RW daily that there is starting to be some chatter about a Bejing boycott....which would prove nothing just like the Moscow one didn't.

They run alike too -- not afraid to lead for a long way. Rodgers frequently used to break away to win marathons in the 14-18th miles.

If you insist on comparing Ryan and Bill, think along the lines of Tiger Woods in his first few years as a pro, and Jack Nicklaus. There's a lot of majors left to play but so far Ryan has shown good stuff.

islandmaineiac wrote:

I opened this discussion so here's my two cents.

When comparing their looks, you have to admit they sort of do look alike:

They don't look anything alike. Get your eyes checked.

malmo wrote:

They don't look anything alike. Get your eyes checked.

I can see pretty well thanks

hall

rodgers

LOL

ooops my bad... finally found my glasses...

hall

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/02/20/donald_trump_narrowweb__300x399,0.jpg

rodgers

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_04/keithrichardsG_468x647.jpg

ryan(at post race press conference)

http://bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/paris-hilton.jpg

bill (at post race press conference)

http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/rod-stewart-2006-clive-davis-pre-grammy-awards-party-hw6mBd.jpg

That is funny. Thanks.

I don't think you can compare the 2 at this stage. Until Hall scores a victory or 2 in international competition, he isn't close to Rogers at this stage of his career. I hope Hall wins OG and then proceeds to win Boston, NY, Chicago, London, Fukuoka etc. In the meantime, he's still just emerging. The below is from wikepedia, so who knows if it entirely accurate. It is pretty darn impressive though.

Rogers:

Marathons

1973 Boston (Did not Finish)(DNF)

1973 Bay State (2:28:12) 1st Course Record (CR)

1974 Boston (2:19:34) 14th

1974 New York (NYC) (2:36:00) 5th

1974 Philadelphia (2:21:57) 1st CR

1975 Boston (2:09:55) 1st American Record (AR)

1975 Enschede, Holland (DNF)

1975 Fukuoka (2:11:26) 3rd

1976 Olympic Trials (2:11:58) 2nd

1976 Montreal Olympics (2:25:14) 40th

1976 NYC (2:10:10) 1st CR

1976 Sedo Island, Japan (2:08:23) 1st CR (200 meters short)

1976 Baltimore (2:14:28) 1st CR

1977 Kyoto, Japan (2:14:25) 1st

1977 Boston (DNF)

1977 Amsterdam, Holland (2:12:46) 1st CR

1977 Waynesboro (2:25:12) 1st

1977 NYC (2:11:28) 1st

1977 Fukuoka (2:10:55) 1st

1978 Boston (2:10:13) 1st

1978 NYC (2:11:28) 1st

1978 Fukuoka (2:12:53) 6th

1979 Boston (2:09:27) 1st AR

1979 Montreal (2:22:12) 15th

1979 NYC (2:12:12) 1st

1980 Boston (2:12:11) 1st

1980 Toronto (2:14:47) 1st

1980 NYC (2:13:20) 5th

1981 Houston-Tennaco (2:12:10) 1st CR

1981 Boston (2:10:34) 3rd

1981 Atlantica-Boavista, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (2:14:13) 1st CR

1981 Stockholm, Sweden (2:13:28) 1st

1981 Bank One, Columbus, OH (2:17:34) 7th

1982 Houston (2:14:51) 5th

1982 Tokyo (2:24) 301st

1982 Boston (2:12:38) 4th

1982 Atlantica-Boavista, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (DNF)

1982 Big M, Melbourne, Australia (2:11:08) 1st

1983 Orange Bowl, FL (2:15:08) 1st

1983 Boston (2:11:58) 10th

1983 Beijing, China (DNF)

1983 Chicago (2:21:40)

1984 U.S. Olympic Trials (2:13:31) 8th

1985 New Jersey Waterfront (2:14:46) 2nd

1985 NYC (2:15:31) 7th

1986 Boston (2:13:35) 4th

1986 Chicago (2:15:31) 11th

1987 Phoenix (DNF)

1987 Boston (2:18:18) 15th

1987 NYC (2:25:01) 54th

1988 Phoenix (DNF)

1988 Los Angeles ( 2:20:27) 2nd masters

1988 Boston (2:18:17) 2nd masters

1988 NYC (DNF)

1989 Los Angeles (2:22:24)

1990 Boston (2:20:46) 5th masters

1992 Vietnam International 19th

1996 Boston (2:53)

1999 Boston (DNF)

[edit] Personal track records

1/2 mile - 1 48

1 mile - 4:18.8

2 miles - 8:48 (indoor practice); 8:53.6 (1975)

3 miles - 13:25.4 (1976)

5 kilometers - 13:42.00 (1978)

10 kilometers - 28:04.4 (1976)

15 kilometers - 43:39.8 (1977 - American Record)

10 miles - 46:35

20 kilometers - 58:15 (1977 - American Record)

1 hour - 12 mi 1351 yd (20.556 km) (1977 - American Record)

25 kilometers - 1:14:12 (1979 - World and American Record)

30 kilometers - 1:31:50 (1979 - American Record)

[edit] Personal road records

10 kilometers: 28:16 (1983)

15 kilometers: 43:25 (1981)

20 kilometers: 58:43 (1982)

25 kilometers: 1:17:23

30 kilometers: 1:29:04 (1976 - Unofficial World Road Record)

Marathon (42.195 kilometers): 2:09:27 (1979 - American Record)

[edit] Major road race wins

Boston Marathon: 4 wins

New York City Marathon: 4 wins

Fukuoka Marathon: 1 win

Houston Marathon: 1 win

Falmouth Road Race: 3 wins

Lynchburg 10 miler: 5 wins

Cherry Blossom 10-Mile Run: 4 wins

Beverly Hills 10 km: 4 wins

Azalea Trail 10 km: 4 wins

Gurnet Classic Beach Run, Duxbury MA

Bloomsday 12 km: 1 win

Gasparilla 15 km: 1 win (first yr.)

Jacksonville 15 km: 1 win

BIX 7: 2 wins (incl. first yr.)

Big Boy 20 km: 3 wins

Runningart2004 wrote:

Rodgers was one of the top 3 or top 5 marathoners in his era...Hall still has 2 minutes to knock off. In order to compare runners in different eras you must compare how competitive they were in their era. Bill wins.

Alan

Not really. All this shows in the depth of field Bill was competing in was much shallower than today. Bill was great but he wouldn't be close to the top 3 or 5 today.

islandmaineiac wrote:

while on this, anyone besides me think that because of the US boycott of the Moscow Olympic games that Boston Billy missed a golden opportunity? He was tough as nails then, on top of his game. Just saw on RW daily that there is starting to be some chatter about a Bejing boycott....which would prove nothing just like the Moscow one didn't.

I think that Bill's peak period was between '75 and '79. By the fall of 1980, he was not quite the same runner, although his performance decline was remarkably gradual during the '80s.

I honestly don't think he would have beaten the doped-up East German in Moscow. In fact, I think that Sandoval might have had a better chance to win there. There were also some excellent runners from other countries who would have been in the mix but for the various boycotts of those Games.

dumprunner wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

Rodgers was one of the top 3 or top 5 marathoners in his era...Hall still has 2 minutes to knock off. In order to compare runners in different eras you must compare how competitive they were in their era. Bill wins.

Alan

Not really. All this shows in the depth of field Bill was competing in was much shallower than today. Bill was great but he wouldn't be close to the top 3 or 5 today.

if rodgers had the advanced training knowledge of today sure he could have run a couple of minutes faster than he did. he raced just about every week includind winning a 10 mile race 5 days after boston, he only tapered 3 days for even his biggest marathons. my coach larry greer told me he would of had rodgers at 205 for the marathon had he coached him with todays much advanced knowledge.

islandmaineiac, those pictures are hilarious, had me going at first. Their blond hair is about the only physical similarity, other than being marathoner skinny. Also, both had/have a very aggressive, run-from-the front style. It's to Hall's credit, that he is being compared to Bill Rodgers so early in his marathon career. I would say that BR represents America's PAST marathon glory; he was the dominant world marathoner from 1975/6-1979/80. Took on all comers, took no prisoners, perhaps to his detriment, as I think he could have run in the low 2:08s on the right course with the right competition (e.g. London today) and peaking just right. Ryan Hall represents the promise and FUTURE of U.S. marathoning. He is extremely talented and has delivered on three occasions. I think he has old-timers like myself excited about U.S. marathoning again (along with Meb and Deena's medal performances in Athens!) If he has half the marathon success as Mr. Rodgers, he will have done incredibly well for himself.

[quote]Steve Hoag wrote:

islandmaineiac, those pictures are hilarious, [quote]

steve, as many of have learned over the years, you can't run well unless you can laugh and keep it fun.

cheers and happy 08

"come run with me"

-------------------

Gary,

I wish I could run with you on 01.01.08 but my days of running over 10-miles are over. Achilles bursitis really limits how fast and far I can run.

DK

Rodgers Boston times would still win today, or at least be top 3-5.

Alan