Seriously, the guy just created a list that shows the guys who did more with less. Why Smily has to make it an American vs other country thing, I don't get. By taking out foreign born people, it shows a perfectly good list of guys who did not make it to footlocker, but are now doing well in college.
Lay off the damn attack.
Colby Wissel from Kansas U was a sub 9 runner in hs
I'd call that talented even though he also had great coaching in hs and college
mazzocco from penn state ran 9:04 in HS, won state 1600 and 3200 titles, and won a PA xc state title. his sr year at flne he "ran for the win" rather than play it safe and just qualify. had a rather large lead at some points at van cortland but faded to finish out of top 8. not blue collar.
isn't manzano, from texas, a guy who went to school and lived in mexico prior to attending UT? taking him out of the race...
For all of the criticism here, some of these guys really are blue-collar. I don't think Baumgartner was a real star in high school. But, just because some of these guys didn't compete at Foot Locker doesn't mean they are "blue-collar." Vaughn, in particular, supposedly ran that 8:45 3200 off of 40-50 miles a week, no more. If that's true, he's a remarkable talent, because most guys that go sub-9:00 are running at least 80+ quality miles a week.
I, for one, didn't start running until my senior year, but managed a 15:54 in cross at high altitude and wound up 2nd at my state meet in the 3200 ahead of three guys that ultimately went on to run 28:30ish for 10k in college. I had no idea that Foot Locker, or Kinney as it was back in the day, even existed. I never got to run at low altitude to see what I was capable of either. I'm sure there are a lot of guys like that flying under the radar.
I am not making it an American vs. others. He took out foreigners from his list claiming that foreigners that are running here are just talented. I just said that that attitude is BS. Maybe that foreigner is working their ass off to be good. It is also true that there are some VERY talented people that do not make it to footlocker for a variety of reasons - extremely poor hs coach, lazy, sick or injured at the end of the season. When they have a coach that lights a fire under their ass or they decide that they are tired of running like shit and actually start training they get better. Is that blue collar? No.
I am just stating that his view is the view of simple thinking and one that is dangerous for the psyche of American kids. When you look at someone and decide that they are just running well off of talent I think that is often way too simple. So many times, American collegiates try to say "well, I was the first American." Who gives a damn?! What place were you?
Maybe I made more of this than I should have but I think that it is a plague in our collegiate system that also infects post collegians if they don't wake up and get it. Train hard!!
Shut Up wrote:
Seriously, the guy just created a list that shows the guys who did more with less. Why Smily has to make it an American vs other country thing, I don't get. By taking out foreign born people, it shows a perfectly good list of guys who did not make it to footlocker, but are now doing well in college.
Lay off the damn attack.
No, the list does not show the guys who did more with less. The list shows that the OP did not do his research. Footlocker is not the be-all, end-all of judging HS talent. He's got sub-9 guys on the list! And tons of sub 9:15 guys. Vaughn, McTaggart, Wissel, Manzano: these guys and others were not nobodys in HS. They didn't come out of nowhere; they ran very fast times in high school.
I'm sorry, if you think Brent Vaughn is a "blue collar" runner, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. And that's just one of the reasons why people think this list is stupid.
Here's another reason: just because a runner was not good in HS (which apparently means "didn't run FL") and then came through big in college does not mean that he is not talented. It could mean he had a shitty high school coach. It could mean that he slacked off in high school. It could mean he just hadn't developed yet. It could mean that he undertrained or underperformed. It could mean that you just don't know what times he ran in HS.
This list does not show who the "blue collar" runners in the NCAA are. It shows that the OP had a poorly thought-out and poorly researched idea and decided to make a list. That's all.
moved here when he was 8
Just going through reading these posts and the whole ranking of so called "blue collar runners" and I came to a conclusion. The person who came up with this ranking first, has too much time on their hand and second, doesn't know anything about running and competition. Give us all a break, to be a champion you have to have tallent, you have to work hard, and you have to be lucky. And the whole thing about foreign runners ... so people who happen to be born somewhere else and get a chance to come here and compete are not working hard? What kind of idiotic nonesence is that. From what I have seen the foreigners are the hardest working, most dedicated athletes around. Much more that any of the Americans I have seen, and they don't make any excuses, they do their best and work their butts off. Sure they may have more "pure" talent but I bet physically they are not that much different that all the runners we have here. The only difference is that they are not scared of hard work, and they don't make excuses. This just sounds like someone who is trying to justify crappy results by making exceptions that don't have any basis in reality.
Summerside is foreign
Smyth is foreign
All of you who thought that "Blue-collar" was refering to economic status are utterly complete morons. Seriously.
2005 Junior Men's 8 km Top 15
1. Galen Rupp (25:13), 2. Stuart Egan (25:22), 3. Hakon DeVries (25:27), 4. Christopher Landry (25:33), 5. Jeremy Mineau (25:40), 6. Ryan Vail (25:42), 7. Bradley Harkrader (25:46), 8. Dave Mock (25:59), 9. Stephen Shay (26:03), 10. Timothy McLeod (26:06), 11. Christopher Pannone (26:07), 12. Alexander Miletich (26:14), 13. Jon Harding (26:17), 14. Drew Shackleton (26:18), 15. Joshua Perrin (26:21).
these guys obviously excelled as juniors, so you can probably wipe them off the list.
there goes Landy, Mineau, Mock, Shackleton
Fitzgerald also made it to FL
lists in which you take arbitrary assignments of "foreign" or FL finalist are pretty useless anyways (not that this was the most accurate list). Just look at overall how the colleges have improved the people that they've gotten. You're not going to come up with a nice list, but it's a heck of a lot more accurate.
also wanted to say that manzano has citizenship in another country, so he wouldn't count. just another reason why the list is fairly pointless. good effort, but not the best.
the teams probably weren't running their "American non-FL finalist" top-5. if they were the results might be different.
vanquishxc wrote:
All of you who thought that "Blue-collar" was refering to economic status are utterly complete morons. Seriously.
I agree, but I'm mystified as to why you posted this in response to my post.
Which leaves Sean Quigley
Mystified, huh? How about perplexed? Or befuddled? Any way you look at it, there was no underlying reason why I posted in response to your post. Your message was simply the last one posted. I sincerely hope that I didn't offend you.
Quigly ran 15:0X something in highschool. Christo Landry ran 8:48 in highschool too. Hardly blue collar.
What the F""" is BLUE COLLAR YOU HOMO's
Not to say Kiel Uhl is necessarily blue collar (because I don't personally know him) and I would say he has talent, but he is not foreign or a Footlocker finalist.
matt forys (brother of FL runner up craig)is what your looking for.mid 9:30's in HS. i was in his county and conference. the boy can run now. side note: i think quigley ran 9:14 for those that care.