"There were 10 committed runners in town, but I was the only real athlete training."

Article on disparate training groups in Boulder in the NY Times.

Shorter was in Gainseville, Fla. in the early 70's, with the Florida TC, getting his law degree and putting the FTC on the map with Jack Bachelor, Jeff Galloway, Marty Liquori and others who were training down there. He moved to Boulder in the mid 70's. Ted Castenada was at Colorado U. up to 1974, because I ran against him a few times in college races. The Colorado TC with Shorter, Castenada, Gregorio, Rick Rojas, etc, really took hold in the mid 70s.

KC old school wrote:

The Colorado TC with Shorter, Castenada, Gregorio, Rick Rojas, etc, really took hold in the mid 70s.

Frank was never on the Colorado Track Club.Dave Merkowitz, the President of the club tried to get Frank to join but the Florida Orange Growers Association came up with some money. Money is something that we didn't have. Maybe, maybe,maybe, Ric joined after I left town in the late 70's.

The CTC was fifth at NAAU CC in 1972 and we beat Shorter and the Florida bunch for the national title in 1974.

Living in the Past wrote:

I heard that it was a motorcycle crash and that he had developed a drug problem. I met the guy at a running camp in 1973 in southern Colorado. I forget the name of the camp, but it was near Pueblo.

Anyway, doesn't J.J. still have the fastest high school time for 2 miles or 3200 meters from Boulder?

You are thinking of Camp Crockett, in the mountains outside Pueblo. I went there for a couple of years, 75-76. Joe Ehlers, from South Mountain High in Phoenix had his X-C team there. Ron Daws, Chuck Smead, Joe Henderson, Dr. Joan Ulyot were there. We had some fun, some fishing, some hijinx and some running at altitude in our week or 2 there. Good times, memories, long ago.

I also remember JJ Griffin from CU. Talked to him at Wichita Invit. X-C in mid 70s and have picture of him in awards line receiving a medal. Long hair, wire rim glasses.

Wow Camp Crockett. I was in JJ's cabin that summer at camp. That was the best 2 weeks of training in my high school career. JJ had a car and we would drive into the town of Rye and JJ would buy beer for the night and we bought sodas. I knew at that time that it was probably going to end badly for him.

Oletimer wrote:

KC old school wrote:

The Colorado TC with Shorter, Castenada, Gregorio, Rick Rojas, etc, really took hold in the mid 70s.

Frank was never on the Colorado Track Club.Dave Merkowitz, the President of the club tried to get Frank to join but the Florida Orange Growers Association came up with some money. Money is something that we didn't have. Maybe, maybe,maybe, Ric joined after I left town in the late 70's.

The CTC was fifth at NAAU CC in 1972 and we beat Shorter and the Florida bunch for the national title in 1974.

I ran the AAU X-C championships in '76, at Franklin Park in Philly. (with Club Midwest). If I recall, Ric Rojas won it for the CTC and either them or the Jamul Toads, led by Terry Cotton and Kirk Pffer won the team title.

jscott wrote:

I ran the AAU X-C championships in '76, at Franklin Park in Philly. (with Club Midwest). If I recall, Ric Rojas won it for the CTC and either them or the Jamul Toads, led by Terry Cotton and Kirk Pffer won the team title.

Look who finished DFL

National AAU Championships Nov. 27, 1976

Belmont Plateau, Fairmont Park Phila., Distance 10,000 Meters.

Cloudy and overcast, Temp. 61 degrees. Course: Fast.

1. Ric Rojas Col. TC 30:23

2. Terry Cotton Jamul Toads 30:26

3. Jeff Bradley Reading Berks 30:27

4. Kirk Pfeffer Jamul Toads 30:33

5. Barry Brown Fla. TC 30:34

6. Mark Finucane E. Tenn. 30:37

7. Ted Castaneda Col. TC 30:38

8. Bobby Thomas Maccabi 30:40

9. Ed Mendoza Jamul Toads 30:41

10. S. Foster Fla. TC 30:41

11. Tom Fleming NYAC 30:43

12. George Malley Nitty VTC A 30:43

13. Bill Lundberg Chicago TC 30:44

14. Ronald Zarate Reno TC 30:47

15. Dave Harper Jamul Toads 30:47

16. John Gregorio Col. TC 30:49

17. Bob Hodge GBTC 30:50

18. Matt Centrowitz NYAC 30:50

19. Pete Squires NYAC 30:51

20. Ron Spiers NYAC 30:51

21. Charlie Vigil Col. TC 30:30:53

22. Herm Atkins Club NW 30:53

23. Tom Lux Jamul Toads 30:55

24. Randy Thomas GBTC 30:59

25. Morgan Fennell NYAC 31:01

26. Chuck Smead Ath. In Action 31:04

27. Don Timm Ath. In Action 31:05

28. Steve Flanagan Col. TC 31:07

29. Benji Durden Atlanta TC 31:07

30. Michael Bordell Col. TC 31:09

31. Byron Dyce Fla. TC 31:10

32. Hamilton Amer Summit AC 31:11

33. Kevin Foley Summit AC 31:11

34. Gary Cohen Athletic Attic NJ 31:13

35. Duane Waltmire Ath. In Action 31:15

36. Paul Stemmer Nitty VTC A 31:16

37. George Reed Seacoast Striders 31:17

38. Don Kardong Club NW 31:17

39. Steve Floto Col. TC 31:18

40. Dwight Kier Nitty VTC A 31:18

41 Ed Leddy Knoxville 31:18

42. Bruce Fisher Chicago TC 31:21

43. David Casillas Chicago TC 31:26

44. Dave Reinhart Athletic Attic NJ 31:27

45. Victor Elk USMC 31:29

46. Anthony Sandoval West Valley TC 31:30

47. Mike Slack Chicago TC 31:31

48. John Sharp Ontario 31:35

49. Steve Mahieu Wash. Running Club 31:36

50. Joel Majors Atlanta TC 31:36

51. Rick Albright Club NW 31:36

52. Scott Graham GBTC 31:36

53. Phil Meyer USMC 31:38

54. Tim Steele Shore AC 31:39

55. Keith Woodward Spur t moment TC 31:40

56. Jim Nuccio West Valley TC 31:42

57. Julio Piazza Phila. Pioneers 31:42

58. Bruce Baden Nitty VTC A 31:42

59. Bob Legge Ontario 31:43

60. Pat Tyson Club NW 31:43

Results wrote:

Look who finished DFL

National AAU Championships Nov. 27, 1976

Belmont Plateau, Fairmont Park Phila., Distance 10,000 Meters.

Cloudy and overcast, Temp. 61 degrees. Course: Fast.

1. Ric Rojas Col. TC 30:23

60. Pat Tyson Club NW 31:43

"I was Pre's roommate" doesn't mean very much in a race.

Where were the Toads from?

Oletimer wrote:

Where were the Toads from?

San Diego area....some guys were from Grossmont JC, coached by Bob Larsen.

Look at that top 60 list....a virtual 'whos who' of top talent in every event from the mile to the marathon, from the 70s.

Great list! Look up the names at the 1972 national meet in Chicago. If I remember right it was Cussack,Leddy,Shorter,Bachelor, Vitale, and Virgin

1975 was the year Colorado TC won the nationals cross country title.

Teams

1. 31 Colorado TC

2. 124 NYAC

3. 136 Florida TC

4. 140 Philadelphia Pioneers

5. 147 Nittany Valley TC

6. 150 Quantico

7. 203 Greater Boston

8. 210 UCTC

9. 227 Knoxville TC

10. 231 Atlanta TC

Individuals

1. 28:57 Greg Fredericks, Philly Pioneers

2. 28:58 John Gregorio, Colorado TC

3. 28:58 Gary Bjorklund, Colorado TC

4. 28:59 Glenn Herold, Wisconsin TC

5. 29:01 Don Kardong, Club Northwest

6. 29:01 Gary Tuttle, Beverly Hills Striders

7. 29:05 Paul Bannon, Memphis St Univ.

8. 29:13 Stephen Flanagan, Colorado TC

9. 29:17 George Malley, Nittany Valley TC

10. 29:17 Marty Liquori, NYAC

11. 29:17 Ted Casteneda, Colorado TC

12. 29:18 Doug Brown, Knoxville TC

13. 29:21 Amby Burfoot, Mohegan Striders

14. 29:23 Dave Babiracki, Fernando Valley TC

15. 29:26 Edward Mendoza, unattached

16. 29:30 Paul Stemmer, Nittany Valley TC

17. 29:33 Charlie McGuire, Philly Pioneers

18. 29:33 Tim Steele, Shore AC

19. 29:34 Don Timm. AIA

20. 29:35 James Peterson, Georgetown AA

21. 29:36 Barry Brown, Florida TC

22. 29:37 Charles Vigil, Colorado TC

23. 29:38 Pete Squires, NYAC

24. 29:39 Al Salazar, Greater Boston

25. 29:40 Ron Zarate, Nevada TC

26. 29:40 John Treact, PCAA

27. 29:43 Daniel Rincon, Delaware Sports

28. 29:45 Tom Steiner, American Ave TC

29. 29:47 Grant McLaren, Toronto Olympic Club

30. 29:48 Victor Elk, Quantico

other notables....

33. 29:53 Randy Thomas, Greater Boston

34. 29:55 Ron Martin, WM & Mary TC

35. 29:56 Neil Cusack, Florida TC

36. 29:57 Bruce Fisher, UCTC

38. 29:58 Denis Fikes, Quantico

39. 29:59 Steve Foster, Florida TC

40. 30:00 Mike Keough, Florida TC

41. 30:00 Scott Eden, Atlanta TC

42. 30:00 Ed Leddy, Knoxville TC

45. 30:02 Curt Alitz, USMA

46. 30:03 Paul Heck, Columbia AA

48. 30:05 Rick Rojas, unattached

49. 30:06 Reggie McAffee, Philly Pioneers

51. 30:08 Karl Thornton, Philly Pioneers

52. 30:09 Dick Buerkle, NYAC

62. 30:27 Byron Dyce, Florida TC

63. 30:28 Jack Fultz, Georgetown AA

70. 30:35 Mike Pinocci, unattached

73. 30:37 Tom Fleming, NYAC

75. 30:42 Bob Varsha, Atlanta TC

82. 30:50 Bob Hodge, Greater Boston

83. 30:50 Arthur Redhair, NAIA

89. 30:55 Pat Holleran, UCTC

109. 31:08 Tom Derderian, Sugar Loaf Mtn AC

113. 31:10 Gordon Minty, unattached

114. 31:11 Jeff Bradley, Lancaster AC

127. 31:22 Julio Piazza, Philly Pioneers

129. 31:23 Gary Fanelli, unattached

137. 31:28 Daniel Dillon, PCAA

146. 31:37 Chris Hallinan, No. Jersey Striders

159. 31:58 Benji Durden, Athens TC

169. 32:05 Tom Gregan, Philly Pioneers

178. 32:18 Dick Mahoney, Greater Boston TC

If you combined scores for 1975 and 1976 the Colorado TC had the lowest 2 scores, and 4 out of the top 7. None of them with the surname Shorter.

I guess Frank was wrong. There were many "real athletes" training in Boulder. The world really didn't revolve around Shorter, as much as he would like us to believe.

18 Gregorio Col TC

18 Casteneda Col TC

21 Malley

24 Mendoza

36 Flanagan Col TC

42 Squires

43 Vigil Col TC

43 Kardong

46 Timm

49 Rojas

49 Foster

52 Stemmer

57 Thomas

78 Fisher

83 Leddy

84 Fleming

99 Hodge

116 Bradley

188 Durden

Mountain Mazungo wrote:

Exactly when Big Frank moved to Boulder?

In his 1984 autobio he says: "I started (law school) at Florida in the spring of 1971 and earned my degree in 1974. I am licensed to practice law in Colorado, where we've been since leaving Gainesville in 1974."

Oletimer wrote:

From where did the quote that is the title of this thread come?

Letsrun thread

New York Times link

The CTC won the meet in 1974, San Mateo,Ca.

Was Shorter a no-show in 1974 too? It's looking more and more like there were already committed runners in Boulder before Frank got there yet, as was his reputation, he refused to acknowledge them.

US 5000 Rankings

1973

4. Ted Casteneda

6. John Gregorio

7. Frank Shorter

1974

4. Frank Shorter

6. Ted Casteneda

9. Mike Peterson

1975

3. Frank Shorter

4. Ted Casteneda

8. John Gregorio

1976

5. Frank Shorter

6. Gary Bjorklund

9. Ted Casteneda

1977

7. Frank Shorter

1979

6. Herb Lindsay

9. Stan Mavis

US 10000 rankings

1973

2. Ted Casteneda

5. Frank Shorter

1974

1. Frank Shorter

4. Ted Casteneda

5. Gary Bjorklund

1975

1. Frank Shorter

3. Ted Casteneda

4. Gary Bjorklund

6. John Gregorio

1976

1. Gary Bjorklund

2. Frank Shorter

6. Ted Casteneda

1977

1. Frank Shorter

3. Ric Rojas

9. John Gregorio

1978

3. Gary Bjorklund

1979

3. Frank Shorter

4. Ric Rojas

US Marathon rankings

1973

1. Frank Shorter

1974

1. Frank Shorter

1975

9. Rick Rojas

1976

1. Frank Shorter

1977

2. Gary Bjorklund

1978

7. Gary Bjorklund

10. Benji Durden

1979

7. Benji Durden

9. Garry Bjorklund

Results wrote:

Look who finished DFL

That is only the top-60, which put Tyson in mid-pack.

Mountain Mazungo wrote:

Results wrote:

Look who finished DFL

That is only the top-60, which put Tyson in mid-pack.

right...that 'kid' who thought 60th was last is a genius...lol....i was in the high 60s and had a 'good' race. there were many more big names between 60 and 150 if anyone has deeper results from '76.

Malmo does the letsrun board proud with his 9th and 12th place 'great runs' of '75 and '75 ! and more importantly for him, he beat teammate Stemmer, though I think he was starting to fade out from the scene by '76.