Is Western State Done???

For what it is worth wrote:

Western State is as good as a Cal Poly, Georgetown or Arizona/Arizona State level of program if they were D1. Certainly very, very respectable.

Just not academically which, yes, prevents them from being D1.

Aim High wrote:

Whatcha scared of, bitch?

Well, I tell ya...if that "Aim High" handle of yours has any connection to the U.S. Air Force, then it sure as hell isn't YOU!

On a more serious note, Northwest, you seem like a fairly level-headed soul, so I will come clean with you. I was simply playing the role, and lowering myself down to Johnny H Utah's level. In other words, I felt like troll hunting.

Believe me, I'm a student of the sport, and I have the utmost respect for the tremendous accomplishments that both Adams State and Western State have logged over their teams' history. But after you have seen enough of the childish, anonymous jerks' behavior on these message boards, I decided it was time to fight fire with fire for once.

The original "Terminology" guy made a tongue-in-cheek comment about the 100-miler, and even punctuated it with an "lol." Then along comes one of the anonymous idiots like Johnny H Utah, with the inevitable profanity-laden reply that's so unnecessary. The verbal diarrhea from guys like him gets old awfully fast.

As I said before, I'm a student of the sport, so I also know what an amazing runner Scott Jurek happens to be. Anybody who holds the course record at the Western States Endurance Run is truly remarkable, contrary to the garbage that Johnny H Utah would have us believe.

The bottom line is that there is virtually ALWAYS somebody better. I gave Johnny H Utah a taste of his own medicine, in the same manner that he was making disparaging remarks about ultra runners. Needless to say, people like Goucher, Webb, Hall, and many others could conceivably come on here and put me in my place in a similar fashion.

As somebody else emphasized earlier, how are we going to ever expect support from OUTSIDE the running world, when we don't even support one another?

I certainly hope that Johnny H Utah is NOT affiliated with Western State in any way. They have a tremendous program, and they certainly don't need jerks like him on their side.

I still don't understand the problem people have with being called a jogger. Runners don't get upset that they are not sprinters. Walkers don't get upset that they are not runners. Sprinters don't get upset when they are called runners.

While it is true that some running and some walking occur in ultra distance races, the majority of the time jogging is the action of the participant. If you do not want to be called a jogger, then go faster or slow down and keep one foot on the ground at all times.

My pr's (started running at 37 years old)

17:00 5k (running)

28:00 5 mile (running)

1:19 half (running)

3:08 marathon (jogging)

4:12 50k (jogging)

Even though I am too old to RUN at Western State, I would like to go to the Western States 100 and see how fast I could JOG the course.

Gimme a break wrote:

What a bunch of B.S. Let me help enlighten you a bit, kid.

Western State College = the leftovers that more than 100 D-1 schools didn\'t consider worthy of a second look. That means their men\'s roster is populated with mass quantities of 9:50 3200m runners.

In other words, this hole-in-the-wall institution is full of so-called \"runners\" that aren\'t fit to clean Scott Jurek\'s shoes. If you still want to find \"hobby joggers,\" is looks like the RMAC is a target-rich environment! Lol!!!!

Check out their roster.

It seems you have little idea of the reputation of Western State. Their record speaks for itself.

I can\'t stand these ultra joggers soming on here proclaiming the greatness of their jogging heros. Yes they can run for long distances, good for them. But don\'t try to say they are better than 14 min 5k runners.

No I don\'t go to Western! Nor am I american!

Run away, bitch! You dodge better than a skinny new felon taking his first shower in prison.

This is the only guy I had a problem with, that's why I got so pissy (sorry to any Western State dudes or readers). The ultra jogger slighting Western State is an idiot. I don't go or never did go to Western.

And to one of the idiots--you can find your odd 31-minute 10K Western State runner to compare yourself to from there. Her name is Elva Dryer (31:21).

The ultra joggers who post deluded crap like that on here are a part of that Divine Madness cult in Boulder, it's not a part of the more respected ultra crowd like Ann Trason. They are completely delusional/psycho and they post on Letsrun all the time.

They are a big part of why the Boulder runners seem so weird on this forum. It's likely "Gimme a break" is one of them. Total and complete nutjobs.

johnny h utah wrote:

Total and complete nutjobs.

As opposed to the mature, articulate way that YOU presented yourself on this thread, right?

RMAC = Junior Varsity wrote:

Don't pout, though...if you're good, maybe Santa will bring you a sub-31:00 10K for Christmas!

johnny h utah wrote:

And to one of the idiots--you can find your odd 31-minute 10K Western State runner to compare yourself to from there. Her name is Elva Dryer (31:21).

What part of sub-31:00 10K was difficult for you to comprehend?

the college is more popular, because ultra-marathoning is not even real running.

I immediately thought of the college and Aish. I read a little about Western States once in Runner's World, but that didn't even cross my mind until someone wrote about the confusion.

aish is back...

fear the flower!

WSC FTL!

Good post. I do think that the sport of running hurts itself with all the in-fighting and crazy thoughts.

Example: A guy here last week said he wanted to open a running store. Another running store owner chimed in with some good advice saying don't cater to elites only, your bread and butter is the average jogger. Another guy posts telling the owner he's sold out because he sells shoes to joggers.

Uh yeah, restaurants should only sell food to chefs; record stores only to musicians and so forth. I'm amazed at the cluelessness here.

That said, I actually was pretty impressed with Western State's school record list. It reads much-like a D-I list.

I do think the WSC and Adams State people at times need to take some humble pills. Perhaps they should go to the Dellinger Invite in Eugene or line it up with Arkansas and see where they land.

As for Ultras, I respect them but I'd never want to be them.

Dellinger invite is all DI teams.

Give Elva time. SHE is still competing.

Thanks for the sensible threads. And thanks, RMAC=JV, for admitting to stirring the pot! I took the bait. I do disagree with "NW RUN" about Western and Adams needing to take humble pills. Well, I should say that I'm guessing the guys actually making the top 7 and putting up the good marks in track are probably not posting on this board, just lurking. Unfortunately, for any school of any size, it's usually the 'wannabes' that post crap. As a Colorado guy, who has followed distance running at all levels within our state, I think you'd find that historically both schools have not avoided top competition, including traveling to Boulder for the Rocky Mountain Shootout, which incidently, used to attract many more DI schools. In track, you'll always see them at places like Mt. Sac and Stanford. Unfortunately, a lot of DI cross country invitationals don't allow DII schools to run the same division. Not sure why it's happening, but I know that both Western and Adams can give you examples of being turned down the opportunity to compete against the big dogs.

I find it unfortunate that both schools aren't give the credit they've earned. Obviously, many recognize how well the schools compete year after year, but too many people are simply too insecure to give credit where credit is due. There are a lot of reasons that some athletes chose DII and DIII over DI, ...better coaching, more money to pay for school, life circumstances, etc. Too many decent high school kids go to DI schools just to be "DI" and just flounder.

Northwest Run wrote:

I do think the WSC and Adams State people at times need to take some humble pills. Perhaps they should go to the Dellinger Invite in Eugene or line it up with Arkansas and see where they land.

you should look at past results from the Boulder shootout and you'll see Adams and Western run well against a top ranked DI school. They don't duck the competition at all. They just get stuck in the Division II ranks and that's just a waste of time for WSC or ASC.

Colorado women were beaten by Adams state 2 times in the last couple of years. I'm sure someone will argue 2 times so I'll tell ya there was a tie in 03 in which Adams won because of the 6th runner.

Western and Adams also peak a lot more for the Shootout than CU does--it's a first meet rust breaker for the Buffs. However Western/Adams do have very good teams year in and year out. They aren't afraid to line up against anybody. Many good D1 teams do not want to line up agains them or admit them to their meets because they are afraid they will get their asses handed to them by a D2 school.

Well noted, thanks for the correction on the competition. Adams and Western do get a lot of play here. I know they have the altitude advantage, but I'm surprised there aren't more competitive D2 teams across the country.

It's not like football or hoops where a D2 guy is pretty much a D2 guy. And one can really improve their times given the right coach and atmosphere in the program.

If WSC and Adams just continue to dominate D2 nationals year after year, it means two things:

1. That they're great programs.

2. That the rest of the nation is not very competitive.

Abilene Christian University hands it to the big boyz almost every weekend (track and cross country)