Victim Profile

Lazy L wrote:

Hmmmm, I call BS on some of these stories...

Politically incorrect version: The shotgun story happened on the Tuscaurora Indian reservation in Sanborn, New York. The Indian was drunk or high, or both. The garbage was thrown at me while running down Pekin Hill. And I was propositioned numerous times while running down Townline Road, north of Pekin.

I did a couple of posts on the 'attacked' thread. But here is my full crackpot theory, born of personal experience, conversations with cops, and a fading memory of a RW story on the subject back in the late 70's or early 80's. Once again, I seem to be a magnat for harrasment so I have given this some thought. By the way I am a 42 y/o male and have been running since age 13, ran for HS and college teams, grew up in central KY; have lived also in AZ, GA, and now FL since June.

Personal experience (and many many stories exchanged with running buddies)

1. Faster runners catch more crap; then again we run more so the opportunity to catch crap is increased.

2. Regular length running shorts catch more crap (no not that kind of crap)than basketball "knickers"; this has come about only since long baggy shorts came into style - not a problem for me or mine prior to about the mid '90s

3. Males running shirtless catch more crap

4. Lone runners catch more crap, though my college team often got yelled at - but offenders tended to back down quickly from 15 guys.

5. Runners in and around Lexington, KY catch more crap than anyplace else I have lived, by far - location matters; it ain't Boulder (rednecks are everywhere, but their ancestral homeland is the south, and they are bitter that it has not yet risen again; note - do not flip off pick-ups with rebel flag stickers on them)

6. Runners on the road catch more crap than runners on the sidewalk, but the later does not make you immune to crap

7. Running roads with little or no shoulder leads to more crap

8. Male runners have their sexual preferences questioned ("f**got!") while females are given the "hey baby, wanna ride in my car" treatment more often; addendum: (straight)male runners usually do not mind female drivers doing this to them; you'll have to ask the gay ones what they think of it

Now the cops' theory:

1. Crime of opportunity; there is no more dangerous vehicle on the road than one occupied by 4 male teens; the mob mentality takes over and they do things they would never do if alone

2. Jealousy; one cop managed to do a 'stake-out' to catch a driver that harrased several ladies every morning on their run; the driver - an overweight female nurse - confessed and said she did not like the girls 'showing off' and making her feel bad (as if that is why they were running)

Old Runners' World Theory:

They noted that you can of course only interview the ones that get caught, but they looked at police reports and what the perps said. Pretty much the jealousy theory was supported; the perps think that we runners are "showing off" and need to be taught a lesson. There is the vigilante aspect too, if I recall correctly, in that the drivers think it is illegal to run on the road so they are doing you a service by letting you know this (via blowing the horn, telling you to get off the road, or swerving at you).

Prevention: make sure you wear a gunny sack, don't ever run on the road, be fat and slow, and for god's sake tape your middle finger to your ring finger so you can only give that Hawaiian salute thing, bra!

This is a great thread and it should've been started a long time ago! I often wonder about this subject and have also come up with the theory that the older you are, the less harassment you receive. I also have theorized that the more affluent and educated the community is, the less harassment there is...at least in my experience.

I'm a 31 year old male and run about 80 miles per week mostly in a suburb of Washington DC. Over the years I've encountered very mild harassment from time to time, the occasional "f**g*t," unwarranted horn honking, or screaming some incoherent babbling out of the window. Probably once every 4-6 months.

I've noticed that the harassment tends to go up when I'm battling the elements more - ie running when its snowing and 10 degrees outside, or pouring rain. Someone once yelled out the window in a very hostile tone "its F$ 18 degrees outside"...not sure why anyone would be bothered by someone running in the cold, but that's the way it goes.

Question for the group - does anyone actually plan their running routes in a way that minimizes potential harassment? I certainly do and I think about it on a daily basis. I try to avoid busy streets as much as possible and focus on the quietest residential blocks. I figure with less cars and people, there is a smaller chance of something bad happening.

As a lifelong runner. 70,000 miles then quit counting. Mostly mid america. First encounter I was in college and had an empty six pack of beer bottles thrown at me by some drunk indians. Luckily i was wearing the old cotton sweats from the 60's and only one of the bottles hit me. I was facing traffic and there was no shoulder. Maybe I was challenging their space. The speed limit was 75 there so I was lucky it was a glancing blow. 5 or 6 years later a half empty coors 16 ouncer right in the chest at probably 45. Several years later a couple of rednecks launch an empty bud bottle at me. Missing as I flip them off the come to a screeching halt slide around and as I clear a barber wire fence they come through it. I know these are some serioulsy fuked up pukes. I zig and zag as they cotinue their chase. They finally wind up with about 100 yards of wire in their rear wheel well bogging them down. Then 5 or so years later a jacked up pickup with 3 or 4 guys in the front pulls a shotgun out and blasts it luckily straight up as it blows by at 70. Nearly had to change my huggies there. Then the last but worst. I'm on a long downhill. I see this car with a guy and his arm hanging out. He rears his arm back and slings a fuking golf ball at me. I juke but it still nails the side of my head. He was probably going 70 and whatever he threw it. Dropped me to my knees. I did have the presence of mind to turn around and see what kind of car it was. To make a long story short I found the guy a couple of weeks later. If it hadn't been in a public place I would have ripped his throat out. He is now im prison after killing some guy on a drug deal gone bad several years after that.

I coached for some years. Girls High School distance. The jackasses that come to the top when there are at least two in pickups. I live in redneck country.

Have been propostioned by women that gave me rides in lightning storm type weather. Been offered a ton of beer, rides in god awful weather etc. I don't venture onto roads anymore as my fat ass can't handle the pounding. The crap I found on those roads is very ecletic too but that is another thread.

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Male, 31, Greater Lansing area (Michigan).

No crazy stories here. Nothing thrown at me ever, but I do get the occasional 'Run Forrest', 'Nice shorts', etc

When it is hot and I go shirtless most of the yelling is from teenage girls in their dad's car.

-Clay

Goddamn I wish someone would yell at me, but they never do. I'm a f***ing roid-range induced running machine, and I'd love to kick some ass. Oh well.

Humbled wrote:

He raises an interesting possibility that Jim may want to incorporate into his working hypothesis -- to what extent is harassment of runners, esp. by motorists, a U.S. thing?

Just to be fair, the age-related hypothesis is not mine. Someone on the Attacked... thread (I apologize for forgetting your name) came up with the idea. I just sort of figured that it had more to do with the community but the age idea was intriguing.

Maybe the age hypothesis may have to do with the behaviour and circumstances of the older runner (i.e., less inclined to say provocative things, less likely to run in the road vs. sidewalk/trail, more likely to run in parks or rural areas, etc.)

Maybe countries that provide universal health care are more civil???

Maybe. So far we've got two positives from Canada and Belgium ;-)

Male, 22, been running for 10 years. I grew up in the Boston area, went to college in Maine, and now I am living in Provo, Utah.

Massachusetts wasn't bad, but then again, I was a high school kid. Maine had it's fair share of "f**got" yells, etc. One time a couple of rednecks ran me off the road a couple of times. They were hammered, and it was late at night.

Provo has, by far, been the worst. I had change thrown at me, cigarettes tossed at me, and people yell at me probably three times every time I run in a certain area of town. There is a huge redneck population here, and in my experience, white trash is the worst in terms of heckling.

dean moriarty wrote:

One time a couple of rednecks ran me off the road a couple of times. They were hammered, and it was late at night.

A couple of times? Maybe the were so drunk that they kept forgetting that they had done this before.

38, male, grew up in N Cali running in high school and then college. Live in Phoenix for the last 10 years. Same usual crap of honking and yelling but only in the mid-day type runs. I run shirtless basically 11 months of the year and am typically left alone. The majority of my runs are on trails but I have to navigate busy streets to get to them. Like most I find the driveway issues the worst. On a similar note I have run all over the country (traveling for work in AT,CA,TX,LS,UT,CO,NM,FL,MO) and have not really ever encountered issues in those states either. From another post the only city I have been hit by a car was here in Phoenix, and it was a complete accident with the sunrise at a blinding level.

31, live in Everett, WA... grew up in Redmond, WA. Funny how a cheesy movie line is all people can come up with when they see someone running. It appears that "Run Forrest Run" is the most common comment to make around America. People are dumb.

I don't have anything overly amusing or scary other than that Forrest Gump line. One time though my teammate in HS 'warned' a skateboarder to move out of the way (as there was 6 of us on a run heading his way), the kid didn't heed the advice and ended up on his ass thanks to my friend. He was warned but decided to test it.

29 y/o male.

I can't remember many times in my teenage years where I felt threatened while running, though I can remember a few times where my mischievious side probably annoyed others during my runs.

There was one time that one of my brothers I were riding bikes (on the highway no less) and passenger in a car threw ice from a fast food soda cup out at us. This was in a quaint town in Chemung Co NY.

In Albany NY a few thugs spotted us running towards their general direction. Maybe they felt we were encroaching on their turf or something because they crossed the street to be on the same side as us as we approached. One of them takes off his belt and starts brandishing it as a weapon and is pumping his fist as if to say lets get it on. We just crossed to the other side of the street and kept going.

I look very young for my age. Another incedent probably five years ago was a bunch of teens yelling out "run Forrest run" after I passed them. I sternly told them I would be back shortly to "deal with" them. When I came back around they apologized. They asked how old I was so I told them. They were surprised and stated they thought I was a just a High Schooler like them. Apparently some teens think it's okay to be rude to others as long as the receiver is young (or appears to be young) but not if the person is perceived as an adult. This was in a suburb in Bergen Co NJ.

Another incident in recent memory was probably three or four years ago. Four high schoolers drive by yelling some obscenities and flash the middle finger out the car window. I'm livid since there's absolutely no reason to behave that way. Turns out the pricks had parked a couple blocks up the road because that's where they lived. As I'm running by they spot me and are eyeballing me. Two of them were pretty damn big for teenagers, one was average, and the other was tiny. I stopped in front of their property, pointed at them and said "I'll kick all four of your asses", then waved them onto the road for a good old fashioned street fight. None of them budged. I gained my senses and continued on the run. (Admittedly I didn't handle the situation very maturely.) As I get further down the street the little guy yells out "If you're so tough, why you running away?" I kept going. Again this was upstate NY.

I haven't had any problems in Westchester Co NY, but also don't run as much. When I do run it's mostly on trails or treadmills.

I'm not sure to do with health insurance:-) I really don't know what would be the reason for actully being harassed or attacked or whatever - by the way I don't think run forest is offensive at all, actually I think the film made people more sensitive to runners - I've been reading the "just" run forest posts for a long time and my perception is that if if the film had not been out, people would not have coomented on you.

On weekdays my route is really not great - I run past dopers (the general kind), bunches of jobless second generation immigrant youth just hanging around, local working class rednosed pensioners. I believe that those potentially closer to the redneck type, the jobless or toiling teenagers, do or are actively interested in sports (typically soccer, martial arts, just gym) and really don't care about you (UNLESS YOU ARE FEMALE - you will get catcalls). In contrast, it seems to me that your typical US runner-hater does not do but rather watches sports, and main american sports at that, drinking beer, and perceives, with inner jealousy, runners as weak.

Of course it is a matter of age, sex and looks. But place is more important. Who has been named names in or around central park? I guess not many.

Late 30s

Minneapolis St. Paul (pop 2.5 million)

A few times a year some punks yell out of a car window -- somehow they always act like they're the first people ever to come up with that idea. Last year some twerps threw a cigarette lighter at me when I was out alone one rainy day. They're usually knucklehead teens packed into a car.

Sometimes, though, they're wannabe tough guys. A few years ago I was running down a street that Ive been down a hundred times and some dude chillin with him homies across the street started screaming like a bad mofo. "Yo, white boy, dont you EVER run down this block again! I'll TAKE YOU ON!" I've also noticed that I sometimes get crap when I run past public housing complexes or bad neighborhoods -- usually from kids hanging out on stoops who don't have enough to do and for whom the appearance of a runner is a novel event.

Once in a while a carload of giggling teen girls will honk and whistle. They're hrmless and kind of flattering.

26 female in Boston.

Wow. I have been tempted to spit through car windows at guys so many times!!! But yea, the usual catcalls, hoots and hollers. It pisses me off to no end. I live in Boston and run mostly in the city and across the river in Cambridge. Many times guys will yell, "Can I run with you?" And I think... umm... no you couldn't keep up. Sometimes I flip the finger, tell them to f*ck off, or just grumble to myself that some men are f-ing annoying sometimes. I once had a car with a couple of guys in it slowly follow me. That scared the crap outta me. I think the thing that bothers me most is when I'm running and I pass a guy and he speeds up OR he looks back and sees me coming and speeds up. WTF?! Sometimes I throw down the hammer and just drop them b/c it's just ridiculous. Other times I just let them go and feel sorry for them. Recently, I've taken to asking them why they feel the need to race me and then ask them if they realize that there are women who can run MUCH faster than me- so what exactly are they proving by speeding up to pass me back??? Oh, and usually they can't sustain the pace once they pass. It's so lame!!!

I'm in the south. If you are not in a car in my city, you are the same as being an alcoholic bum in the eyes of those driving past.

We have resorted to carring rocks in our hands while running to use as defense. if a car swerves at us as a joke, we joke back and punch the side panels leaving dents.

I have run in many cities across the US and I am suprised there are posters saying they have never been harrassed. It sounds to me like these people aren't running seven days a week.

I am 31, caucasian male and log around 75-80 mpw. I currently live in Michigan in a small town but have lived in South Carolina and Oregon and run in a number of different states. The worst areas to me have been rural areas with no shoulder to the road, and the worst times are when it is not so good weather. I have positive cat calls, whistles, & honks. Like most others, I have been subject to the usual insults (run forrest, nice shorts f**, put some clothes on,etc.), but the typical situation that causes confrontation is when you are running facing traffic and they feel as if it is their job to put their tire on the white line marking the side of the road. I have had many people be driving in the middle of the lane and then see me and move to the white line. These actions usually result in one or both middle fingers. I have had people turn around twice and start yelling at me, but I just keep running (obviously a bit faster). The rural areas are worse because of the lack of shoulder on most roads, and because of the other problem--unleashed dogs. I have had more yelling matches with dog owners than I have had people who swerve at me and the dog owners think they have every right to let their dog chase people down the road and most often laugh at the situation saying"dont worry he/she doesnt bite". To which I normally reply--"Keep your F$%^ing dog in your yard" which usually sets them off. Doesnt matter the size of the dog, all you need is one good bite on your achilles and you are a pedestrian for life.

The best area I have run in is Oregon, because they have bike lanes on most roads and they are generally pretty knowledgable about running.

Those are my 2 cents

miles wrote:

I'm in the south. If you are not in a car in my city, you are the same as being an alcoholic bum in the eyes of those driving past.

We have resorted to carring rocks in our hands while running to use as defense. if a car swerves at us as a joke, we joke back and punch the side panels leaving dents.

I have run in many cities across the US and I am suprised there are posters saying they have never been harrassed. It sounds to me like these people aren't running seven days a week.

I'll let others be sarcastic about your flawed reasoning at the end - the possibilities are endless. You make a valuable contribution though in your first paragraph.

M32. Sometimes get taunts if I'm running when there are large groups of high school kids congregating. Occasionally get some taunts from small children. But some of the other kids pay me various compliments, backhand or directly (they may say hi, run with me for a minutes and chat, try to run next to me on the track, etc)

But otherwise it's very uneventful, at least compared to what I routinely hear about on this board.

I live in jersey city, it's not exactly a town of yuppie runners (at least not the part of jersey city I run in)