rhodes ran much, much better at regionals than they did at scacs. maybe they were peaking a little bit later than some of the other teams??
rhodes ran much, much better at regionals than they did at scacs. maybe they were peaking a little bit later than some of the other teams??
agreed - it seems like a lot of people are whining about teams "underperforming" at earlier meets, thus not deserving to go...all the while forgetting that it's the NCAA regional meet that carries the most weight. sorry if the teams you're affiliated with can't sack up and perform when it counts...this year, i'd say the luthers, rhodes, tufts, and to a lesser extent, trinity and wartburg stepped up and got it done...platteville looked like they fell on their face - 26points from 4th place, UT-Tyler 1 from first -- and still got a bid.
if the committee wants to distribute the weight of qualifying procedures more evenly among several meets...they need to say that...until then, performing at regionals is what matters most, and to a slightly lesser extent (in the case of bubble teams) performances at conference and the meet before.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Ricky Flynn's run. He ran with his right arm immobilized, basically with his right wrist pinned to his waist, and still finished 8th. Just for fun, I ran about a mile yesterday with my right wrist pinned to my waist, and it was grossly uncomfortable and damn near impossible, and I don't even have broken collarbone.
Agreed! Flynn's run was an inspiring thing to watch. Talk about guts.
I don't run in the south, but I'm from the south and almost went to school there. I think the problem in the south is deeper than not running inter-regional meets, although I agree that Tyler probably would have done well at inter-regional meets. Schools in the south don't seem to recruit as hard and don't get strong enough incoming classes. Out of all the southern schools I looked at, only Emory recruited me hard. And even then, I'm not sure that my running would have helped much with admissions there (I could be wrong, I never pursued it that far). Schools in the north seem to have stronger running traditions, and the coaches are in large part very up front about promising help with admissions and financial aid. Several NESCAC coaches told me they had some influence with admissions. No coach in the south told me that. In fact, several told me that they had no voice in admissions.
Look at Williams or Haverford or Calvin or North Central or any other top D3 program. I would guess that their rosters are full of guys who ran 9:50 or 9:40 or better in high school. I know that there are always the exceptional guys who run 10:12 in high school and then 15:04 in college, but those guys are few and far between. The bread and butter guys at the top d3 schools are the guys who ran 9:30 to 9:50 in high school (not great d1 recruits but excellent in a d3 program). Emory, Rhodes and Tyler probably have five or more guys who ran sub 10 in high school (don't know for sure, I haven't done the research), but I bet no one else in the region does.
I know the biggest problem states like VA have is the competition between D3 schools when it comes to getting quality recruits. In the state of VA, a sub-9:40 guy could walk-on at UVA, William & Mary, George Mason, Richmond, VCU, VMI, Liberty, Radford, Longwood, and a few others. Then, if a guy is on the fence and decides to go D3, they can choose between W&L, UMW, Bridgewater, CNU, Lynchburg, Roanoke, even Virginia Wesleyan.
Considering that there's maybe 20 guys who run between 9:30-9:50 each year from that state, a D3 school considers themselves pretty lucky to land one or two a year. I know that academics play a big role for guys that are not potential D1 studs, but when there are nearly 20 in-state schools for a freshman to choose from, its hard for one team to get every good recruit. The same kind of logic can be applied to out-of-state guys.
Something to think about, if we scored the region meet by state, with the number of competitive (able to pull at least one sub 9:40 guy a year) D3 schools in parentheses:
VA (6)- 5,6,8,11,17,(18),(19) - 47
TX (3)- 1,2,13,15,20 - 51
GA (1)- 7,10,16,21,22,(23),(24) - 76
TN (2 if you count Sewanee)- 3,4,12,27,30 - 76
NC (0, because Nasiro-Sigo is an anomaly)- 9
KY (1)- 14
If VA had only 2 or three D3 schools, I bet they would have at least one team in the top 2 of every year.
You guys have sub 9:40 guys on your team? I've heard of them but never actually seen one before.
ricky flynn 9:35
jeremy falke 9:29
ryan van alstine 9:3x
Tyler has 2 guys that broke 10 in highschool, and both were in the 9:50's.....they all just worked really hard, and will work harder for next season
On the other hand, some of the other regions have more D3 schools than the south. Look at the number of participants in the regional meets. The south has about half the number of participating schools than other regions like new england, atlantic and mideast. Wouldn't they also have a problem recruiting enough 9:40 guys?
South man wrote:
On the other hand, some of the other regions have more D3 schools than the south. Look at the number of participants in the regional meets. The south has about half the number of participating schools than other regions like new england, atlantic and mideast. Wouldn't they also have a problem recruiting enough 9:40 guys?
Look at the number of students at some of those "D3" schools. NYU has almost 40,000 students (including grad), some of the Wisco schools have 7000-10,000 undergrads, same with SUNY schools. I'd guess the median enrollment at S/SE schools is under 2000.
Given how many students are at these schools, they could probably not recruit at all and find some people around campus to put together a pretty competitive D3 team.
Congratulations to Rhodes and Emory, they ran a great race and were very sincere in pulling for the Tyler team to go to nationals. The South gets no love of course, but for good reason. As far as the perfect score claimed by Tyler, it was said in passing if you read the blog, they got 15 points at their conference, and claimed that it would be nice if they could do it again, wouldn't we all love for it to be that easy. They were, in fact, looking for top 3 sweep, and it could have been done, their number 3 had an awful day, he is just as fast as Ben and RJ, so they completed 2/3 of the trio.
I noticed one of their guys go out in around 4:57 for the opening mile. Who was that and where did he finish? (not the smartest idea, imo...)
Welcome to the region, Tyler. You guys were very decent to our guys on Friday and Saturday, and you handled what must have been a crushing disappointment well. It was hard not to like your coach, but the blog was kind of cheesy.
bumblebee wrote:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Ricky Flynn's run. He ran with his right arm immobilized, basically with his right wrist pinned to his waist, and still finished 8th. Just for fun, I ran about a mile yesterday with my right wrist pinned to my waist, and it was grossly uncomfortable and damn near impossible, and I don't even have broken collarbone.
That was sick.
I raced the mile my senior year in high school with a fractured collarbone and threw up after because of the pain.
Dick was probably popin pills.
nathan, i believe it was warren brown, who hung on for 15th (26:38).
http://bp3.blogger.com/_r8ZaQL2xJrM/RzXmRY33IgI/AAAAAAAAAEk/sVhQSifh5zQ/s1600-h/IMG_0238%5B1%5D.jpg
Haha, I have to agree about the blog to a certain extent, but it was the first time that I've ever heard of runners getting any public recognition around here. We don't live in a very runner-friendly area, it's Texas, football rules, no one knows anything about running or endurance sports for that matter. So, while cheesy to runners, I think the public ate it up around here, I think they were just trying to get people excited about running, I just wish we could have pulled off a better finish at Regionals, but we'll take 3rd.
Thanks, that's actually not bad considering the first mile. But it makes me wonder, if he's been the #3-4 man all year why was he so far ahead of his teammates that early on? Has he been doing this the whole season? If so someone should really tell him to slow down, I imagine he'd be one of the top guys in the region. Of course Nasiro-Sigo has the same problem, he probably could have 3 or 4 regional titles if he was, well, a bit more strategic.
Size of enrollment has NOTHING to do with cross country success. Top athletes will be at school X because that coach sold them on what they needed to hear (both athletic and academic), which is completely independent of the size of the school.
As for at larges, until the south can start getting two teams to place in the top 20 (which the trinity and emory women might be able to do this year), they will be completely ignored by the selection committee.
It certainly has something to do with it. Bigger schools (state schools) tend to have more "tip" spots to give to athletes and also easier admissions standards in general. Also you are more likely to find some random kid who picks up running at a bigger school. Speaking from personal experience, I didn't start running until I was 19, I wasn't recruited by anyone because I didn't run HS cross country. You're more likely to find someone else like that at a school with an enrollment of 20,000 than of 2000. We also had a kid on our team who came to school as a swimmer, then decided to try distance running, and finally switched to javelin where I believe he had one of the top 3 throws in the conference last year.
