NATO itself is not a threat to Russia when Russia is playing by the rules of the civilized world. NATO is a threat to Russian expansionism. NATO is a deterrence to war. It is not an offensive force. The invasion of Ukraine was purely based on expansion of Russia. If you spout their propaganda, which even Putin doesn't believe, you are nothing more than a useful idiot.
Nothing that has happened in the last 3 years supports your opinion.
Meanwhile, Russia has been saying NATO on their borders is a red line for decades.
By some crazy coincidence whenever the west tries to push NATO further east there's a war.
And how hopelessly naive are you to think the attack on Russia would end if they just went home. If Russia did nothing NATO would move in Ukraine, and then Belarus, and then Georgia... and the US would start trying to topple Russia's government.
NATO has bordered Russia (or the Russian SSR) since its founding. Norway has been a member since day one.
There was not a war when Poland joined NATO. Or Estonia. This war caused Finland to join, rather than the other way around. Finland incidentally, has a 1200km land border with Russia, and there was no war with Finland.
Finally, the only attack on Russia is Ukraine’s strikes as part of this war. The war Russia began and could end.
Apparently you have no idea where Norway is.
The US told Russia NATO wouldn't expand eastwards in the 1990s after the Soviet Union collapsed.
The US then went on to bring Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic into NATO in 1999. Russia complained but didn't do anything.
So then the US brought in 7 more countries in 2004. Again Russia complained but didn't do anything.
In 2008 the US said Ukraine and Georgia were next. Russia said NATO in either Ukraine or Georgia was a red line and it would not tolerate NATO in either country. The US said we'll do what we want and Russia immediately invaded Georgia. Ukraine had a pro-Russian government at the time so there was no threat of Ukraine joining NATO so nothing happened in Ukraine.
Croatia and Albania were absorbed into NATO in 2009. Russia didn't say anything because they don't care about Croatia or Albania because they aren't on their border.
In 2014, the Obama administration toppled the Ukrainian government and installed a pro-western government. This new government immediately began trying to de-russify Ukraine and threatened the Russian naval base at Sevastapol. Russia seized Ukraine. Ukraine waged war on the Russian separatists in the Donbas and Russia complained but did not sent troops.
Your knowledge of the history and geography here is poor.
NATO itself is not a threat to Russia when Russia is playing by the rules of the civilized world. NATO is a threat to Russian expansionism. NATO is a deterrence to war. It is not an offensive force. The invasion of Ukraine was purely based on expansion of Russia. If you spout their propaganda, which even Putin doesn't believe, you are nothing more than a useful idiot.
A "defensive" organization which has absorbed 16 countries and threatened to absorb 2 more since it said it wouldn't expand in the 90s...
It is laughably naive and infantile the way you people completely dismiss Russia's point of view.
NATO itself is not a threat to Russia when Russia is playing by the rules of the civilized world. NATO is a threat to Russian expansionism. NATO is a deterrence to war. It is not an offensive force. The invasion of Ukraine was purely based on expansion of Russia. If you spout their propaganda, which even Putin doesn't believe, you are nothing more than a useful idiot.
NATO a deterrence to war?? Lol. Kamala going to the Munich security conference in February, 2022 and saying NATO would expand to Ukraine is literally what sparked the war five days later.
It is useless to point out historical facts and context on this board when every dolt has their mind made up and is unmoved by history, but Russia was invaded by Napoleon and Hitler causing devastating losses. 20 million people died during WW2, two million just in the battle of Stalingrad. There are people still alive who experienced the horror. So is Russia a little paranoid? Yeah, and understandably so. America has never been invaded so we are utterly unable to relate. Imagine the opening minutes of Saving Private Ryan. Those losses happened every single day for six months during the battle of Stalingrad, plus the deliberate targeting of civilians.
The braindead will call me a Putin lover. That's false and indicative of being unwilling or unable to engage on actual substance. Putin is not an ally of ours. But his paranoia is understandable. Plus, the eastern Ukrainian oblasts he has taken are majority-Russian and welcome the "invasion."
By Ronald Anderson The 1939 war between Finland and Soviet Russia has been a minor inclusion in most histories of World War II. In terms of human resolution and fortitude, though, few battles in military history can compete w...
Nothing that has happened in the last 3 years supports your opinion.
Meanwhile, Russia has been saying NATO on their borders is a red line for decades.
By some crazy coincidence whenever the west tries to push NATO further east there's a war.
And how hopelessly naive are you to think the attack on Russia would end if they just went home. If Russia did nothing NATO would move in Ukraine, and then Belarus, and then Georgia... and the US would start trying to topple Russia's government.
NATO has bordered Russia (or the Russian SSR) since its founding. Norway has been a member since day one.
There was not a war when Poland joined NATO. Or Estonia. This war caused Finland to join, rather than the other way around. Finland incidentally, has a 1200km land border with Russia, and there was no war with Finland.
Finally, the only attack on Russia is Ukraine’s strikes as part of this war. The war Russia began and could end.
The whole "we can't have NATO near us!" has always been bullsh!t. Kremlin propaganda garbage they use to rile up the serfs. It's so factually baseless, debunked and irrational that I'm surprised the MAG@s even repeat it anymore. Most actually don't. Just a few truly deluded ones who dance around to whatever the Kremlin tells them to do.
NATO itself is not a threat to Russia when Russia is playing by the rules of the civilized world. NATO is a threat to Russian expansionism. NATO is a deterrence to war. It is not an offensive force. The invasion of Ukraine was purely based on expansion of Russia. If you spout their propaganda, which even Putin doesn't believe, you are nothing more than a useful idiot.
A "defensive" organization which has absorbed 16 countries and threatened to absorb 2 more since it said it wouldn't expand in the 90s...
It is laughably naive and infantile the way you people completely dismiss Russia's point of view.
I think you are ignoring the point of view of the countries who have joined NATO. Poland, Czechia, etc were all occupied by the USSR from 1945-1989 (the Baltic states were annexed into the USSR). None of these countries had a positive experience of Communist rule, and do not want to be occupied by Russia again. They now feel vindicated in their decisions to join NATO, as Russia attacked countries that were not currently part of NATO.
From these countries’ perspectives, joining NATO is a reaction to Russian aggression, rather than the other way around.
I don't think that sliver of land in the arctic circle is particularly worrisome from a military standpoint.
Finland was able to hold off the Soviets in WW2 because the terrain is so unforgiving.
You can't find Ukraine, Syria or Norway on a map.
The Norway-Russian border is a critical area in Russia's widespread and ongoing war against the West. The Arctic territory in general is of vital importance. Russia has significant naval military assets in the area (Murmansk). Russia has made the Norway border a focal point for espionage, surveillance and border incursions.
Sergei Goncharov and the Russian Geographical Society over several years cultivated a web of partners in neighbouring Norway. Today, he is unwilling to answer questions about covert recruitment of spies and mapping of Russian...
A "defensive" organization which has absorbed 16 countries and threatened to absorb 2 more since it said it wouldn't expand in the 90s...
It is laughably naive and infantile the way you people completely dismiss Russia's point of view.
I think you are ignoring the point of view of the countries who have joined NATO. Poland, Czechia, etc were all occupied by the USSR from 1945-1989 (the Baltic states were annexed into the USSR). None of these countries had a positive experience of Communist rule, and do not want to be occupied by Russia again. They now feel vindicated in their decisions to join NATO, as Russia attacked countries that were not currently part of NATO.
From these countries’ perspectives, joining NATO is a reaction to Russian aggression, rather than the other way around.
I'm all for every country being able to choose it's own destiny.
However, I'm not a child so I don't think every country will actually be able to do that.
If Russia started the Warsaw Pact back up and toppled the Canadian and Mexican governments and then Canada and Mexico and Cuba all wanted to join an anti-American military alliance what do you think the US would do?
I don't think that sliver of land in the arctic circle is particularly worrisome from a military standpoint.
Finland was able to hold off the Soviets in WW2 because the terrain is so unforgiving.
You can't find Ukraine, Syria or Norway on a map.
The Norway-Russian border is a critical area in Russia's widespread and ongoing war against the West. The Arctic territory in general is of vital importance. Russia has significant naval military assets in the area (Murmansk). Russia has made the Norway border a focal point for espionage, surveillance and border incursions.
The Norway-Russian border is a critical area in Russia's widespread and ongoing war against the West. The Arctic territory in general is of vital importance. Russia has significant naval military assets in the area (Murmansk). Russia has made the Norway border a focal point for espionage, surveillance and border incursions.
If you are ever able to take of your Russian underwear for a while, you could read up on the harm that Russia wants to do to YOU and your country.
The adversarial nature of the west's relationship with Russia is entirely manufactured in order to sell weapons and enrich corrupt politicians.
We spend money to provoke a problem and then demand more money because the problem we created exists.
^^^^^^^
This is the kind the kind of naive, pseudo-contrarian, "it's all America's fault" sh!t that Abbie Hoffman/Jane Fonda types would have written in the 60s. How did this childish nonsense ever make it back into American thought?
This nearly three year long conflict is now coming down to a race against time. Russia has been able to weather sanctions and the demands of mobilization on its domestic economy for two and a half years. But recent ramped up sanctions on Gazrpombank and the war's attrition on Russia's labor force have put Russia on the brink of economic collapse. Russia's non-war economic sector is in dire straits due to high interest rates (just hit 23%), inflation and a labor market where the workforce has been diverted to fight the war and to join arms production. Many Russian non-war enterprises are teetering on the verge of bankruptcy. Grocery stores are locking up butter due to price shocks and theft. Pensioners are furious that they cannot get by on their benefits with rising prices everywhere. Russia has even slapped tariffs on Chinese furniture parts in an opening salvo on China's opportunistic dumping of its goods on the Russian market to make Russia dependent on China's manufacturing sector. Worse of all, Russia's energy production and exports have fallen off sharply as oil prices have remained around $70 a barrel and Russia's energy sector has been dealing with labor shortages and damage from Ukraine drone strikes.
At the same time, Ukraine is racing against the clock of an inevitable cut off of support from the US under Trump. This won't mean the end of Ukraine's ability to fight Russia. But it will leave it up to the Europeans to pick up as much of the slack as they can. Much of the European right wing's opposition to funding the Ukraine war has been on the premise that it is just a fight between Russia and the US and should not concern Hungary, France, etc. But if Trump cuts off funding for Ukraine, that raises the prospect of Ukraine being overrun by Russian forces who will then be on the doorstep to the Balkans and Poland. So, Ukraine will not fold on inauguration day in the US. But unless the EU steps up in a big way, Ukraine will face arms shortages later this spring and into the summer.
Thus, the question is who will reach their tipping point first? Can Russia's economy make it through the winter without cascading non-war sector bankruptcies and revolts over inflation? Or will the EU step up and take up the slack where Trump leaves off and supports Ukraine through 2025? Or will both countries blink at the same time and strike a peace deal (probably an armistice on the current front lines) before either side faces their critical point?
The people telling you Russia's economy is going to collapse at any moment are the same people who told you inflation was transitory.
Russia can feed itself. Russia can arm itself.
The idea that it will quit if it's economy gets too bad is absurd. Russia considers the war to be an existential threat. The majority of the populace supports the war.
It's going to take a hell of a lot more than expensive butter to get Russia to accept NATO in Ukraine.
Russia cannot arm itself. It has relied heavily on drones from Iran and recently had to start buying shells and missiles from North Korea.
The Russian government will be overthrown if the economy collapses. One pensioners and veterans stop getting their benefit checks, it won't be long before people take to the street to bring down Putin. The last mass protest in Russia was when Putin proposed reforms to the pension system (i.e. cuts).
They won't respond to your question because they have no good response. Americans are so propogandized they are incapable of seeing anything from a Russian perspective.
The adversarial nature of the west's relationship with Russia is entirely manufactured in order to sell weapons and enrich corrupt politicians.
We spend money to provoke a problem and then demand more money because the problem we created exists.
^^^^^^^
This is the kind the kind of naive, pseudo-contrarian, "it's all America's fault" sh!t that Abbie Hoffman/Jane Fonda types would have written in the 60s. How did this childish nonsense ever make it back into American thought?
History has shown that your neo-con interventionist foreign policy is a complete and utter disaster.
You idiots will never learn.
Al Qaeda is effectively running Syria now thanks to idiots like yourself .
They won't respond to your question because they have no good response. Americans are so propogandized they are incapable of seeing anything from a Russian perspective.
Oh they all know exactly what the answer is. They just won't admit it out loud because it completely destroys their position on Ukraine.
The people telling you Russia's economy is going to collapse at any moment are the same people who told you inflation was transitory.
Russia can feed itself. Russia can arm itself.
The idea that it will quit if it's economy gets too bad is absurd. Russia considers the war to be an existential threat. The majority of the populace supports the war.
It's going to take a hell of a lot more than expensive butter to get Russia to accept NATO in Ukraine.
Russia cannot arm itself. It has relied heavily on drones from Iran and recently had to start buying shells and missiles from North Korea.
The Russian government will be overthrown if the economy collapses. One pensioners and veterans stop getting their benefit checks, it won't be long before people take to the street to bring down Putin. The last mass protest in Russia was when Putin proposed reforms to the pension system (i.e. cuts).
It can do a much better job of it than the west can. They aren't rationing artillery shells Ukraine is.
Who exactly do you think is going to take over after your fantasy overthrow happens??
Putin is one of the more pro-western people in Russian politics. The people that will replace him will take an even harder line on Ukraine.
They won't respond to your question because they have no good response. Americans are so propogandized they are incapable of seeing anything from a Russian perspective.
LOL! Everyone can see things "from a Russian perspective." But we're talking about geopolitical threats, not marriage counseling.
What the fvck do you want normal people to do with "a Russian perspective"? Apologize for hurting their feelings? "We're sorry, Russian. We have been selfish and didn't think that maybe you people feel happier launching cyber-attacks on us, invading foreign countries and threatening the world with nuclear bombs. We want to value your feelings. We really do. Thanks for sharing."
You people are like little kids running around. "Russian perspective" for fvck's sake. HAHA!!!!!
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