My Journey to Sub 16 5K, Including My Training Logs. Need all the help I can get

Grant Fisherman wrote:

Yeah, I would suggest one of his weekly workouts to consist of 200s-400s at mile pace, one per week 4-6 weeks before the target race. 1600m-2000m of total work. Recoveries are 2x longer than the hard rep.

How many reps and rest? Standing or jogging recovery? How would I figure out my mile pace? I haven't ran an all out mile since high school. I'm planning on a Halloween 5K race in 3 weeks since I don't know what my 5k pace is since last weeks race was short and went wrong. I figured it's 5:10-5:15/mi right now but it's a guess

speedy alf wrote:

Sub 16 min 5k is also my goal for 2017. I'm a low mileage guy, 22 mpw.

I've raced hilly 5k xc in the woods 17:26.

10k on road 35.49

15k hilly xc in the woods 56.05

What's your average mpw?

Here's my log from March to September (2nd image)

We will get that sub 16! I haven't done anything this week because of the weather, but I will run this afternoon (8 miles) and a long run tomorrow morning (12 miles).

Next week for me looks like this (including miles and pace)

Mon: 60 Min Easy (8 mi; 7:00-7:30) AM

Tue: 45 Min Work Day (7 mi; 6:10-6:20) AM

Wed: 60 Min Easy (8 mi; 7:00-7:30) AM

5 x 200 all out with 5 min rest PM

Thu: 60 Min Easy (8 mi; 7:00-7:30) AM

Fri: 15 x 300m @5:10 pace with 200m jog PM

Sat: 90 Min Long Run (12 mi; 7:20-7:40) AM or PM

Sun: Off

Then the next week it's the same thing but Friday's workout will be 12 x 400m at 5K pace with 200m jog. And the week after it's 8 x 600m 5K pace with 200m jog Should I shorten the 45 min workday and turn it into a faster tempo? Should I do the workouts at mile pace or 5k pace? What difference would it make?

Bump

Sub16_5k wrote:

[quote]Grant Fisherman wrote:

Yeah, I would suggest one of his weekly workouts to consist of 200s-400s at mile pace, one per week 4-6 weeks before the target race. 1600m-2000m of total work. Recoveries are 2x longer than the hard rep.

How many reps and rest? Standing or jogging recovery? How would I figure out my mile pace? I haven't ran an all out mile since high school. I'm planning on a Halloween 5K race in 3 weeks since I don't know what my 5k pace is since last weeks race was short and went wrong. I figured it's 5:10-5:15/mi right now but it's a guess

Just use 5:00/mile pace. This workout shouldn't be all that difficult. You shouldn't be out of breathe when starting the next rep. Be creative. Just do 200s, 300s, and/or 400s totaling the amount I suggested. Do toward the lower end of total work for your first session. For recovery it makes no difference, stand or jog. I have a target 5k race in 5 weeks and plan on doing exactly this. It has worked for me in the past and isn't much different from the Jack Daniels plan.

*out of breath

OP you said that 45min progression run is something you do often? how often?

2nd workout last week:

5 x mile but had to stop after 4 due to lightning. 3ish minutes rest between. Averaged 5:28 or so.

This week's workout: 3up, 10 x (2 min hard/2 min easy), 1down. Probably averaged low 5:3x on the hard and for the whole 6+ miles of the workout averaged 6:1x.

Racing a 5k this weekend and hoping to break 17 but weather is looking dicey and I expect to be alone.

Now to circle back and read the OPs updates since I last posted...

So now that I've caught back up, this guy hits it on the head that I am concerned about how much you are over-analyzing EVERYTHING.

First off, not every workout will be better than the last. Things don't play out that way. You have to be able to gauge if you are still able to put in the effort (not the splits) intended by the workout or if to pack it up for another day. Remember, some days you will run worse than your fitness but you can never run better than it. You're every bit as good as your best workouts.

Secondly, maybe add some longer stride sessions (with ample rest) after your aerobic runs to help make sub 6 feel more comfortable.

Honestly, I'd recommend taking the watch off for a week and going by feel.

you should have no problem breaking 16:30 and challenging 16, based on that 10x600m workout.

jjjjjj wrote:

you should have no problem breaking 16:30 and challenging 16, based on that 10x600m workout.

Hey I appreciate it! Honestly I was probably resting too long, and I was spiked up and on a track, unlike my other workouts, so that helped a lot. Plus I was an 800m/mile guy in college and feel a lot more at home in those kind of workouts. Honestly I even feel better at the half/full than I do at the 5k/10k distance where I've always struggled. Wouldn't rule out sub 16:30 on a perfect day on a track (this weekend is on a road and supposed to be windy), but I'm not ready to hold 5:10s just yet. Maybe come indoor season I can get my old ass in a race and go for it.

16:53 this past weekend, but have confidence that I'm in better shape.

Went out too fast trying to hang with the leader and when I turned into the wind the last mile I crumbled. 5:12, 5:24, 5:46. Not the worst rust-buster I suppose, and I feel like if I hopped on a track next weekend, in good weather, I could run close to 16:20.

Also I'm old and my legs felt TERRIBLE on my morning run today.

Doesn't run because of the weather, obsesses over ALL aspects of HR, obsesses over paces on progression runs to the tenth of a second... Any idiot can see the problem but looking at your log, you obsess too much. Running is very simple. Run lots of mileage, with some very easy days and some very hard days. Vary the pace to hit everything from ~800m pace to a jog. Run a decent length long run (anywhere from 18-30% of your weekly mileage, depending on total mileage. Lower mileage should do a higher % of weekly mileage as a long run).

You shouldn't be taking off "due to weather". You shouldn't even be recording weather. You shouldn't be wearing a HR monitor on every single run/workout. The only time I wear my HR monitor is on long runs and easy runs after a very hard effort (to keep myself slow enough).

Other than that, eat lots of good food, sleep a lot, and do dynamic stretching before workouts. Ta-da!

Any idiot can see the problem BY looking at your log*

The critics have spoken, and they're right. Ditch the heart rate data. Quit obsessing and just run.

What sort of weather forced you to take multiple days off? Whatever it was, go buy a jacket and a hat and get the heck out there.

All you can do is keep training and trying, but from what I see, your goal might be out of reach.

OP, I think I understand your situation, but I had to read it carefully and is pretty long, reason why some people won't read it.

Do you use the heart rate monitor because of your history with the blood pressure? You said you've been under beta blockers....

The reason why you lose motivation is because you take too many factors in consideration combined with an unbalanced training method.

You also said you don't have a coach.

Give me 7 weeks of your time to prove my training method. I'm not charging anything and would be interesting for this forum to see the results.

What do you say?

Mon - Off

Tue - 45 Min Work Day (Complete)

Wed - Off (Went to bed late, not sure if I should run today)

Thu - 60 Min Easy

Fri - 15 x 300m @5K pace with 200mj between reps

Sat - 60 Min Easy

Sun - 90 Min Long Run

--------------------------------------------

Mon 3 mile reocvery run

Tues Long reps - 800m to 1 mile

Wed 5msteady run

Thurs 7 m steady run

Fri Short reps, hills or tempo

Sat 5 mile steady run or race (shift Fri to Thurs if racing - don't rest unless key race

Sun 10-12 mile run medium pace pick up over last few miles

Do that for 6 months, rest if injured

Cut rest day at least go for recovery run. Once you have one rest day you will be having 3 a wk

George Ilie wrote:

OP, I think I understand your situation, but I had to read it carefully and is pretty long, reason why some people won't read it.

Do you use the heart rate monitor because of your history with the blood pressure? You said you've been under beta blockers....

The reason why you lose motivation is because you take too many factors in consideration combined with an unbalanced training method.

You also said you don't have a coach.

Give me 7 weeks of your time to prove my training method. I'm not charging anything and would be interesting for this forum to see the results.

What do you say?

Thank you and ok, I have a 5k on October 29, what should I do these next two weeks?

So far this is what I was planning to do this week:

Mon. 8 miles easy (completed yesterday)

Tue. 15 x 300 w/200m jog in between (today)

Wed. 8 miles easy

Thu. 8 miles easy

Fri. 7 mile progressive tempo and 8 x 200 strides right after with 1 min recovery

Sat. 10-12 mile long run

Sun. Off

And I won't worry much about my HR anymore at this point.

How does that look so far? I'll be going to my local HS track today in a few hours to do the 300s. I was thinking about building it up each week to 400s one week, then 600s, the next week 800s, then 1000s.

Then for next week, should I just do 8 miles easy everyday then 5k race on Saturday or should I still do a workout?

I also have my thanksgiving Turkey trot I want to peak for (with the base I have) on the 24th of November.

Is the progression above a good approach for the next two races? After the turkey trot race I might do a third one in two weeks and then build my mileage for a half marathon in January. From there, get my mileage up much higher and break 16 if I haven't already this year.

Before starting this remote coaching, I have a list of requests. Think about them carefully and say if you agree.

1. Forget about your short term plans of training. Take anything as new.

2. You will have 49 consecutive days of running. It is okay to mess up 2-3 of them, but no more.

3. Discipline is essential. If one day you have 45 minutes of running, then you run 45 minutes, not 40, not 50.

4. Never question the training. After the final trial you can say anything.

Although it sounds serious, the training is quite easy and you may doubt that it works.

The training plan is structured in high detail.

The training would start on 24th of October and finish after a 5k trial, on 9-11 of December.

Every week you'll have an assignment, such as pace play (will explain it when the time comes), focus, etc.

As for the 2 races, these will be part of your training, although treated serious.

These being said, if you accept the requests, then we can proceed.

It is a good opportunity for both of us. For you to demonstrate your will and dedication and for me to prove my training method.

3 x 2 mile tempo repeats today w/ 2 minutes shuffle recovery between. 11:30, :20, :10.

Have a couple longer races in November before dropping down for more speed work to try to go sub 16 in an indoor race.