Complaints about NCAA Nationals @ Louisville’s course by coaches: Right or Wrong?

muchadoaboutnothing wrote:

Quit already. The Louisville course will be just fine and spectators will be happy and the workers will do a great job.

Don't try to tell me that almost all of the 250 are capable of being there at the 400m mark - that's BS. The best teams are WAY better than the middle and bad teams, and the middle teams are WAY better than the bad teams. And all the middle to bad teams have maybe a #1 runner or at most a #2 that will even sniff the front after just 30-45 seconds.

There will be a nice string of competitors at 400m just like any other major meet with 250 runners.

God, what a bunch of p***ies. I'm glad I earned my All-America back when runners were better and tougher.

So what is you prediction for the split times at 400m? I would be surprised if there is more than 4 seconds for the pack.

26mi235 wrote: I have not heard anyone that has run the Zimmer/Wisconsin course say that the Terre Haute course is better. A number equate them (i.e., they are equal in quality) while probably a majority think that the new Zimmer course is better.

Can't speak to the UW course because I've never seen it. But I'm in that biased group that thinks the NCAA meet should be held in Terre Haute every year. While not brutal, the course is challenging enough (it will never be mistaken as a fast course). The course is great for spectators. Most of all, the Indiana State staff that organizes the race cannot be matched. The quality of the event is beyond reproach.

The Louisville site is a one-year mistake that will be corrected in 2013.

Good XP wrote:

Having ran it twice for the SE regional, the start does narrow fairly quickly and will reward those who get out well.

Then the start becomes tactical. So what? And if you get out slow, you've got 9600 meters to make it up after the course narrows.

Is NCAA XC about the spectators or racing?

At the 400m mark "narrowing", you could still fit at least 20-25 runners wide,...so even if the gap from first to last was only 4 seconds (which is a stupid "fact",...It will easily be 8-10), all 250 would fit fine.

And with a gameplan, a halfway fit jogging spectator could see the 400m, 1/2 mile, the 2K, 3K, almost 4K, 5K, 7K, 8K, almost 9K, and finish.

Sigh....but keep trying. Oh, and remember that it was ISU that declined to bid this year. I guess they needed at least a 1 year break from all the whining they always get.

muchadoaboutnothing wrote:

At the 400m mark "narrowing", you could still fit at least 20-25 runners wide,...so even if the gap from first to last was only 4 seconds (which is a stupid "fact",...It will easily be 8-10), all 250 would fit fine.

My guess is that the spread from 1st to last at 400m will be more like 15s. (4:20 to 5:20 pace)

B+

Terre Haute does a good job and the course is runner and spectator friendly .....sort of....the finishing area sucks! Several reasons...

1. fans can only stand one side of the course to watch the finish, the other side could be used, but they DONT use it(it's a big big space)....all they would have to do is rope it off after the runners take off....why they choose not to do this is be-on me. They have plenty of voluteers.

2. the worst part is.....the DOWN HILL at the finish line area, it is rigged so only the first line of spectators can get a good view, most of the spectators are force to stand in the valley of not being able to see.....down in the valley so low

3. also there is fence problem on the course: the gates are to small which allow spectators to get through.

BTW: There are more positives that negatives

muchadoaboutnothing wrote:And with a gameplan, a halfway fit jogging spectator could see the 400m, 1/2 mile, the 2K, 3K, almost 4K, 5K, 7K, 8K, almost 9K, and finish.

Just looking at the course map, that looks to be about 5K.

I've been to multiple greater Louisville races, NIA Nationals, D2 Nationals, and Regionals at this course. As a spectator, i really don't have a complaint. The only place you don't have a good viewing of the race is on the back section by the BMX bike course.

malmo wrote:

muchadoaboutnothing wrote:

At the 400m mark "narrowing", you could still fit at least 20-25 runners wide,...so even if the gap from first to last was only 4 seconds (which is a stupid "fact",...It will easily be 8-10), all 250 would fit fine.

My guess is that the spread from 1st to last at 400m will be more like 15s. (4:20 to 5:20 pace)

Even well paced teams like Colorado won't go out this slowly...not even in the girl's race.

For those that will be there - should be interesting spot to watch for a meet changing pile-up.

malmo wrote:

My guess is that the spread from 1st to last at 400m will be more like 15s. (4:20 to 5:20 pace)

???

The spread at 2k last year was 27 seconds (5:41 to 6:08).

That means the slowest guy at nationals went out in something like 4:53 for the mile.

So the spread at the 400m at Terre Haute was probably 6 seconds if the last-place guy went out hard at all, which I guarantee is the case. That's 40ish people per second.

Take the trailers off the back, and there were 241 guys passing through in the span of 20 seconds at the 2000m mark (5:41 - 6:01). That's 12 people per second.

Just the facts.

big fing deal wrote:

Then the start becomes tactical. So what? And if you get out slow, you've got 9600 meters to make it up after the course narrows.

Only if there is room to physically pass people. 200 bodies take up a lot of space. At NCAAs in Terre Haute, there is no room to move until 3k, and it doesn't really thin out till about 6k. I know Louisville is a thinner course even after the changes, so I definitely don't advise going out slow and trying to make up ground.

All of you seem to think the course is 10 feet wide or something....

The course (and the start) is fine, it is plenty wide, you can make moves around people with no problem, there is no meet changing pile-up in the future, if someone goes down, you will be able to just jump over or move around, you don't have a thing to worry about,....Again, what a bunch of p***ies - WHO ARE you insanely pessimistic people?

12 people per second going thru a 20-25 person wide area is not a crowd in my book. Unless the 20 front leaders hold hands and start skipping to the loo at the 400 meter mark, everything will be just fine, my darlings.

I, for one, am hoping for a MASSIVE pile up. It will take some chaos to make this an interesting race.

muchadoaboutnothing wrote:

All of you seem to think the course is 10 feet wide or something....

The course (and the start) is fine, it is plenty wide, you can make moves around people with no problem, there is no meet changing pile-up in the future, if someone goes down, you will be able to just jump over or move around, you don't have a thing to worry about,....Again, what a bunch of p***ies - WHO ARE you insanely pessimistic people?

12 people per second going thru a 20-25 person wide area is not a crowd in my book. Unless the 20 front leaders hold hands and start skipping to the loo at the 400 meter mark, everything will be just fine, my darlings.

You missed the guy who estimates 40 people per second at 400m, which seem to make the course twice as narrow as it should be or the field will be twice as compacted as it should be. I think it will be very interesting and am very glad the meet will be back in Terre Haute next fall.

muchadoaboutnothing wrote:

At the 400m mark "narrowing", you could still fit at least 20-25 runners wide,...so even if the gap from first to last was only 4 seconds (which is a stupid "fact",...It will easily be 8-10), all 250 would fit fine.

And with a gameplan, a halfway fit jogging spectator could see the 400m, 1/2 mile, the 2K, 3K, almost 4K, 5K, 7K, 8K, almost 9K, and finish.

Sigh....but keep trying. Oh, and remember that it was ISU that declined to bid this year. I guess they needed at least a 1 year break from all the whining they always get.

Could you share your "game plan on how you will watch the race on this course and get to 10 spots in a 10k?

Also, are you sure ISU declined to host?

And the 5k, and the 7k.

My complaint with Louisville isn't just the course, although the course is not very challenging or exciting to run on. It is more about the environment. When you roll into Terre Haute you know that you are rolling up on the NCAA championship course. When you roll up to Louisville you feel like it is a crappy high school invite. We ran there for Pre Nat and they did a horrible job of dressing up the course and making it feel like a special event. And people can talk all they want but the kids at NCAA should at least feel like the NCAA meet is a big deal and not just another event. Louisville does a crappy job of this. I felt the same way when they host NCAA track regionals a couple years back. Nice staff, but Louisville is just not the place for these events!

where is the best place to enter to avoid the admission fee?