Fruit Ninjas wrote:
Safe to say, she will end up at Oregon as a college athlete
A 'scary smart' bronxville girl is not going to the U of Oregon while her pals go off to Yale and Penn.
At least I would be very surprised if that happened.
Fruit Ninjas wrote:
Safe to say, she will end up at Oregon as a college athlete
A 'scary smart' bronxville girl is not going to the U of Oregon while her pals go off to Yale and Penn.
At least I would be very surprised if that happened.
adsfasdf wrote:
Eligibility for high school and eligibility for the Olympics are different. Today, Ryun WOULD be ineligible for NCAA competition (and probably most HS leagues too) if he was coached by an NCAA coach while he was a high schooler.
There are also other issues. Cain is officially class of 2014. This means that it would be a violation of NCAA rules if any NCAA coach contacted her directly. At her present grade level, NCAA coaches can only directly answer questions raised by an athlete. Salazar is not officially on the staff of UO, but he is directly employed by a firm that is obviously a booster of the University of Oregon. If she was a highly rated football recruit and was directly contacted by a booster during his junior year (and other coaches found out about it), this would unquestionably trigger an investigation.
There are quite a few other cases like Julia Stamps who had a private coach but competed on her team as I recall. But it seems to me that if you train unattached you should be required to compete unattached (and compete in junior competition but not high school competition). I think the issue is whether Cain had enough training time under the supervision of a high school coach to meet the requirements of her high school federation.
Eligibility wrote:
She shouldn't be allowed to run in high school races. Thus she shouldn't be eligible for NXN or Footlocker. Both races require you to be eligible for your own high school association in order to race them.
This is just wrong. There are a number of high schoolers who have been home schooled and ineligible to run in high school races in their own state who have competed at Footlocker.
Fair is fair wrote:
Thanks for the history lesson old timer, but the question is, how is it fair for a high school kid who has resources that exceed those of all other high schoolers to be competing against other high schoolers? She is no doubt an exceptional talent and is seeking to cultivate that talent to the fullest. I don't think anyone would say that's wrong. But now that she has taken the step to run at the highest level of the sport (professional/Olympics - they are one and the same), she should be running with/against peers, not high school kids. And why would she even want to run against inferior high school talent anyway?
She should run against her peers and she probably does in some events. But, there is no reason she shouldn't have the opportunity to set high school records (event, all time?) while still in high school. I'll bet there are a lot of high school runners who train, either in the summer or during the season(s) with outside, professional coaches. In fact, it's not even uncommon in the northeast for distance runners to train in the winter rather than compete in indoor track. Just because Cain's coach is a high profile dude doesn't change anything.
What happened to good old fashioned sports?
agip wrote:
Fruit Ninjas wrote:Safe to say, she will end up at Oregon as a college athlete
A 'scary smart' bronxville girl is not going to the U of Oregon while her pals go off to Yale and Penn.
At least I would be very surprised if that happened.
From what I hear, there aren't many pals left, at least not on the team. Once she declined running on relays with the team, they declined her friendship, seems fair.
Seems motivated at least in part by "tall poppy syndrome," from what I've read. Also, I can't help but wonder whether quite so much pushback for maximizing her options would be happening if Mary Cain were, say, a younger clone of Alan Webb, with less cultural baggage as a guy to be "friends" with teammates who apparently prefer that she not excel at their expense. The price to be paid for such "friendship" sounds to me like the athletic equivalent of playing dumb in math class.
A 'scary smart' bronxville girl is not going to the U of Oregon while her pals go off to Yale and Penn.
Oh, the really smart girl would reject Oregon, Yale, and Penn. and instead go to where they combine the best of the aforementioned three and choose............VILLANOVA.
Eligibility wrote:
If I were a high school coach. I would be asking questions too. She shouldn't have any eligibility now within the high school ranks.
Salazar is a professional Nike coach. Even though Nike doesn't seem to be paying Cain yet. She is still receiving benefits that a "normal" high schooler can't. To me she is a professional runner now.
She shouldn't be allowed to run in high school races. Thus she shouldn't be eligible for NXN or Footlocker. Both races require you to be eligible for your own high school association in order to race them.
Everything you said disgusts me and your mentality is terrible for the sport. Anyone who doesn't think she should be able to run NXN or Footlocker is a joke and doesn't understand the sport. You people are complaining about a high school student who is trying her best to develop her talent. you think she shouldn't be able to compete with girls her age because she is taking advantage of an unbelievable opportunity? She has great facilities.... good for her, she has a great coach.... good for her. Let's not try to punish a HIGH SCHOOL kid because she got a chance of a lifetime. I know I want to see her battle Baxter at footlocker, why do you want to make the sport less exciting?
adsfasdf wrote:
Jayhawk wrote:By that logic Jim Ryun should have been ineligible to run the Olympics in 1964 and to run any high school meets in Kansas because he trained with Bob Timmons over the summer of 64 after Timmons had taken a job as an assistant coach at Kansas.
Timmie was no longer Ryun's high school coach and [Ryun] actually went from Wichita to Lawrence to train for the Games.
Eligibility for high school and eligibility for the Olympics are different. Today, Ryun WOULD be ineligible for NCAA competition (and probably most HS leagues too) if he was coached by an NCAA coach while he was a high schooler.
I'm not sure about that (literally: I'm not sure), but think you may be right. However, Ryun (or his parents) did pay Timmons--as required by NCAA rules of the time--to preserve Ryun's eligibility.
Cain's parents, who are heads-up people, are paying Salazar and otherwise making sure that all current NCAA rules are being complied with.
Cain *could* end up at Oregon--after all, Hasay (also "scary smart") did--but I'd think Stanford would be more likely. I could see her at Villanova if she was just thinking a running-only degree, but I agree with a previous poster: smart Bronxville kids typically aim higher academically (V is a decent academic school, but well below the Ivy/Farm level).
In any case, it's not clear that Cain will be competing at the collegiate level.
runner85 wrote:
Everything you said disgusts me and your mentality is terrible for the sport. Anyone who doesn't think she should be able to run NXN or Footlocker is a joke and doesn't understand the sport. You people are complaining about a high school student who is trying her best to develop her talent. you think she shouldn't be able to compete with girls her age because she is taking advantage of an unbelievable opportunity? She has great facilities.... good for her, she has a great coach.... good for her. Let's not try to punish a HIGH SCHOOL kid because she got a chance of a lifetime. I know I want to see her battle Baxter at footlocker, why do you want to make the sport less exciting?
Then let her run for her HS team and coach like everyone else. She seemed to be doing fine running 2:03 as a frosh with her HS coach and team. Running HS and college didn't hurt Shalane or Deena.
if you root for USA athletics, you want the best talent to wind up with the best coaches as early as possible and reasonable, no penalties attached. Other countries don't even consider this an issue at all.
Lol. Nonsense.
its a bunch of jealous guys complaining because this girl has already ran faster than most of their PR's.
If this were a guy in her shoes, im sure none of the guys (im sure at least 90% of those whining are guys) would complain.
Can't imagine the uproar on here and the drug accusations that will fly when she gets down to the low 4:20s in the mile, a time that would put her in the top 5% of boys (and top 1% in some states) of boys out there.
Fair is fair wrote:
Thanks for the history lesson old timer, but the question is, how is it fair for a high school kid who has resources that exceed those of all other high schoolers to be competing against other high schoolers?
Suppose this were Salazar's kid we were talking about. Would that be any different?
Runner 85: you're the wrong one. Bronxville High School has a girls team and a girls coach. Join, run, prosper. If that team or coach is not "good enough" for your daughter you can send her to one that is if you are willing to relocate.
Or you could go pro. It's happening in socccer now: kids have to join clubs that are outside the scholastic realm or stay with high school team.... not fair for the club kid to come in on game day and take a spot from the kid who was at high school team practice all week. Pick one or the other, DON'T TRY TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
Fair is fair wrote:
If she is being trained like a professional by a professional, she should run against professionals, not other high school kids who are trained by high school coaches.
What about private hs's ? Should their students not be able to compete in big hs meets?
Now that I think about, why is she going to a public school anyway? Rich family, nice hood, makes no sense to roll with the unwashed masses.
worst poster wrote:
Now that I think about, why is she going to a public school anyway? Rich family, nice hood, makes no sense to roll with the unwashed masses.
That high school/community has very little in the way of "unwashed masses."
I've taught at a good private school that didn't have as high (on average) a socioeconomic status.
Now that I think about, why is she going to a public school anyway? Rich family, nice hood, makes no sense to roll with the unwashed masses.[/quote]
Ain't no unwashed masses in Bronxville. Wealthy town with property taxes around $40,000.
In New York, if you have your own kind running the schools, you can send your kids there and have a real good education and sports program.
Its still nowhere near big time private school quality/experience. Even the best publics are trifling compared to some of the privates that have pools, stables, fieldhouses(!), massive acreage, etc, etc.