Salazar is formally coaching Mary Cain

First of all for gymnasts, figure skaters, tennis there is no concern about NCAA eligibility because they rarely choose to compete at the NCAA level.

Am I the only one who thinks this is sad? The nice thing about running is you can have a relatively long career...what is the rush?? How about enjoying high school and college? Being part of a team? Most good high school runners can relate to winning duel meets by over a minute, so what? I get that she is very very good, but so many of our good high school runners burn out, and she has chosen a coach whose method appears to be "last man standing". There's a reason why he hasn't been able to keep a woman in his group.

Mary should have talked to the last girl who was really fast in HS who Salazar worked with..Ari Lambie

I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers or cause any offense when I ask this question. I'm asking this from an athletic/physiological standpoint.

What's going to happen when Cain hits puberty and her body starts changing? We've seen this many times with girls: they run really great pre-menstruation, then they fall off once they become women. Will she be able to run faster? Will she stagnate? Or get slower? And if her performances don't continue to improve, will Salazar drop her?

flomojo wrote:

I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers or cause any offense when I ask this question. I'm asking this from an athletic/physiological standpoint.

What's going to happen when Cain hits puberty and her body starts changing? We've seen this many times with girls: they run really great pre-menstruation, then they fall off once they become women. Will she be able to run faster? Will she stagnate? Or get slower? And if her performances don't continue to improve, will Salazar drop her?

She's not 11.

Left Said Fred wrote:

She's not 11.

not all girls hit puberty at 11, especially girls who have been intense athletes since they were little. I know female athletes that didn't hit puberty until 16. I don't know if Cain has or not (and frankly, I don't want to know) but I feel only time will tell with this one.

the dillemma wrote:

Mary should have talked to the last girl who was really fast in HS who Salazar worked with..Ari Lambie

How do you know she didn't.

I worry when Alberto talks about cleaning up the mechanics of people who are already running quite well.

I don't think he really understands running biomechanics. I don't think anyone really does. There are too many anatomical variables to consider. You can't prescribe an ideal running form for everyone. By forcing athletes to conform to an idealized running style, I think he risks injury and performance degradation. You can't just watch videos of Kenenisa Bekele and tell your athletes to run like him.

I do think his heart's in the right place, though. Mechanics are very important. But I think finding the right form is largely a process best left to the athlete, because they're the one getting the proprioceptive and mechanical feedback needed to determine what's working. In other words, the athlete needs to learn what works by feel.

On further thought the fact that Mary Cain will be working with Salazar does not necessarily mean she will be transitioning to 1500/5K. He may be working on her form, regardless of the distance she runs.

How can Mary Cain's priority next year not be 8/15? The World Youth Championships are next summer. Results from this year show only one age-eligible girl who had a better time than Cain in the 800. That was Anita Hinriksdottir of Iceland, who ran 2:03.15 and 2:03.23, bettering Cain's 2:03.34. In the 1500 Cain ran 4:11.01. No other age-eligible girl ran under 4:20. I cannot imagine any meet next year other than the World Youth having more importance to Mary Cain. She could even run in both events -- as Jessica Judd did this year in the World Juniors.

Who will be better at the PRO level Cain OR Wilson?

flomojo wrote:

I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers or cause any offense when I ask this question. I'm asking this from an athletic/physiological standpoint.

What's going to happen when Cain hits puberty and her body starts changing? We've seen this many times with girls: they run really great pre-menstruation, then they fall off once they become women. Will she be able to run faster? Will she stagnate? Or get slower? And if her performances don't continue to improve, will Salazar drop her?

She should ask German Fernandez. When he hit puberty, his running really got worse! Great Freshman year in college and fell off the face of the earth!

Two issues:

1) If Alberto's main purpose is reworking her stride, I don't see how this focus on biomechanics is accomplished by him writing workouts she completes from states away. I know she is going to a biomachanics conference, but doesn't changing something as fundamental as stride require long, sustained one-on-one attention with constant correction? In other words, how does writing her workouts do anything to meet this goal when he can't actually see her run? If he is messing with her stride without even seeing her this is a potential huge problem for injury.

2) Her dad has all the signs of an over-invested parent. Hopefully he is not putting too much pressure on her or creating conditions where she is being pushed away from teams, schools, local coaches, etc. because daddy is an alpha male. Athletes do best with supportive parents who know how to back off. Hopefully she isn't burned out by dad's ambition for her. Just too many danger signs in that article to be comfortable.

This is one of the best well-thought-out posts I've read on here in awhile.

Not trying to pick on Salazar, but this arrangement just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, from many perspectives.

In addition to the two excellent points made by meee, is a 16 year old girl really prepared to spend the next two years training by herself?

No intelligent observer of our sport at the hs level doubts that talented kids are often being grossly over-raced. But is the answer to completely abandon all hs competition up through the state level, and limit the kid to only national and open races?

well the flaw in mee's arguments is that Al Sal and MC's dad are not idiots - they no doubt have the same concerns and have discussed them and come to a solution.

It is certainly not an ideal situation (as AlSal alluded to), but perhaps better than chasing the boys in all of her workouts, as she was doing (even if appearing to be beneficial in the short run) recently.

Perhaps going back to Mitchell would have been a better scenario, but then does he keep his girls into the Senior ranks? or do they get new coaching as Collegiates? Presumably the latter, in which case (like Rupp, although not quite the same due to proximity) she might as well start developing further with the coach who will try and get her onto World-level rostrums as a Senior athlete.

Whether AlSal is the coach for her, remains to be seen, but perhaps this is better than simply staying with a HS (or Collegiate for that matter) coach for the wrong reasons (being part of a team or having a training group) if it is not about helping YOU the athlete become the best runner in the world (if that is possible for a given athlete).

Cain has already been through some significant changes. I remember watching her run as an 8th grader and she is way more physically mature now, and looks great. I think she is already well past the majority of changes her body is going to go through and she is handling it quite well. Just look at a picture of the girl, she is not one of those bony distance runners who look 5 years younger than they are. She looks healthy, and mature, and I'm confident she will only improve with age.

This is awesome!!!!!

What is Albertos Email?!?!?!

I want to sign up for this training system too. I am a amazing HS male 17 years old. Senior. I am not the next GALEN, I am the first of ME!

So much for The high school and college experience. My best friends to this day are from those days. All to follow workouts by AlSal and train alone? Kinda sad.

This attitude may be good for her 10 years from now but this is what is wrong with the sport. We are moving toward club soccer status here. No teams just selfish individuals. Another nail in the coffin.

on a split. wrote:

Do you ever wonder why most professional gymnasts, figure skaters, and tennis players come from independently wealthy families? We are preventing a large majority of talent in America from getting the coaching they need to become world beaters

You are full of garbage.

Arthur Lydiard coached working class guys to Olympic gold medals and I'm sure it didn't cost them much, maybe $25 a year for club dues. Distance running is not gymnastics, skating, or tennis and thinking so is the mistake Mary's father has made.

agip wrote:

well the flaw in mee's arguments is that Al Sal and MC's dad are not idiots - they no doubt have the same concerns and have discussed them and come to a solution.

Yep.

You can bet Alberto will be spending some face to face time with her and her local coach and local experts/support.

The dude is not stupid.

The stretch to criticize the dude on this board at times is inane and insane.