Maximus, good writing skills, but you are wrong!
Maximus, good writing skills, but you are wrong!
Maximus
WHY DON'T YOU TRY RESEARCHING instead of just opening your mouth and writing what you think and hoping and pryaing your right and your WRONG look at the videos!!!!!
When Shelia Reid won Wisconsin Invite last year the conditions were basically the same as Laura's run:
WISCONSIN 2011 Shelia Reid victory
1.) course DRY,
2.) VERY LITTLE WIND,
3.) she had a race the whole way as Jordan Hasay was pushing her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md_u683omyw
So she had more competition and same conditions; however, LAURA HOLLANDER destroyed the 2010 course record by 19 seconds that SHELIA REID missed by 7 seconds in 2011.
WISCONSIN 2012 Laura Hollander break CR by 19 seconds SOLO
What does count is a course record its a true measure of history.
For the day , its who you beat , who's behind you and its not often when a freshman can stand alone at the finish of a big invite , look over her shoulder and its the entire field , favorites and all.
In this case its this kids first 6k x-country as she states in her interview.
She will gain strength with time , she will be challenged and have to compete without the run- away style she showed.
My take , we have a real champion in the making.
Conover and his crew at Cal Poly know the game and will bring her along.
[quote]GoLaura wrote:
When Shelia Reid won Wisconsin Invite last year the conditions were basically the same as Laura's run:
WISCONSIN 2011 Shelia Reid victory
1.) course DRY,
2.) VERY LITTLE WIND,
3.) she had a race the whole way as Jordan Hasay was pushing her.quote]
You really are pretty exhausting. You do know what drought conditions are do you not? Do you know that a course can be dry in both years, but due to lack of rain a course can still be much firmer and therefore faster than in a previous year. Of course you didn't understand the track analogy was comparing the same track from year to year, not two different tracks, so maybe it isn't a suprise that you aren't getting this.
Independent of the course conditions, you still have the strategy of the race. Do you honestly believe that Sheila was just going to let Laura run away from her and that she wouldn't have been able to handle that. Sheila ran the race the way she knew she could win and if Laura had been in the race, she would have raced differently.
There is very little chance that Laura would have beaten Sheila Reid by 150 meters, which is what this argument is about. None of us know the answer to this, except apparently the OP and yourself, who are completely confident in your assertion that she would have beaten last years national champion by 150 meters. Think about how silly of an argument that is.
all in ! wrote:
What does count is a course record its a true measure of history.
For the day , its who you beat , who's behind you and its not often when a freshman can stand alone at the finish of a big invite , look over her shoulder and its the entire field , favorites and all.
In this case its this kids first 6k x-country as she states in her interview.
She will gain strength with time , she will be challenged and have to compete without the run- away style she showed.
My take , we have a real champion in the making.
Conover and his crew at Cal Poly know the game and will bring her along.
Very good post. The fact that she set the course record is definitely worth noting, especially since the course has been around a few years. For some to try and imply that she would have beaten last years national champion by 150 meters is not worth noting, as has been previously mentioned.
Conditions were favorable for a fast race in 2012 and Hollander ran like a Badass Mofo. It was something to see.
2011 had a softer (normal) course and much stronger winds.
Watch at least the first 15 seconds.
You're apparently lack the ability to comprehend or just being difficult. The difference in winning time is 20 plus seconds is were the 150 meters came up, I never mentioned if they went HEAD to HEAD Laura would win by 150 meters.
Laura went out 33 seconds at 3km faster then Shelia and the pack did and the freshman went out so fast that a 31:15 10000m Betsy Saina track runner let her go thinking she would comeback to the field.
It's mid season and Betsy is a NCAA Champion and world class 10000m who place SIXTH at KENYAN OLYMPIC TRIALS! So regardless of what you want to say Laura beat a world class runner.
Would Shelia Reid have followed Laura who went out 33 seconds faster then Shelia?
Laura also closed SOLO only 6 seconds slower then Shelia last 3km did during her battle with Jordan Hasay. SO LAURA WENT OUT 33 SECONDS FASTER THEN REID and CLOSED only 6 seconds slower over last 3km then Shelia.
Shelia Reid probably could have reeled Laura Hollander back in but Betsy Saina couldn't so it's not a given that Shelia Reid would have either!!!!!!!!
hahahaha wrote:
Honestly this thread is pretty disrespectful. What Sheila accomplished in her career, particularly in XC was amazing. Just cause a frosh ran about 30 seconds faster than Sheila in two completely different races doesn't mean shit. Shelia negative split by about a minute...meaning she could have gone out harder. However I'm pretty sure it was extremely windy last year as opposed to this year. .
It's not disrespectful, it's just pointing out how incredible this freshman's run is.
Also your point about negative splitting doesn't make any sense. Hollander ran her second half in almost the same time as Reid and went out 32 seconds harder. Her negative split suggests she also could have gone out harder.
Now the conditions such as you mention like wind could matter. But the fact that Sheila negative split is irrelevant since Hollaner's negastive split is much more impressive.
That doesn't change that Reid is amazing, or anything she accomplished, it's just facts.
^Clearly you're an idiot in terms of negative splits. When one is able to negative split by over a minute, it means that they could have gone out harder. It's sort of like someone going out in 5:20 and closing in 5:10 and then a runner going out in 5:45 and closing in 5:07. Obviously the runner who went out in 5:45 should have gone out faster since they closed 38 seconds faster than their first mile.
And I'm not saying Hollander's negative split wasn't more impressive, because it was BUT her negative split doesn't suggest she could have gone out harder. Reid's negative split does since it was over a minute faster than her first 3k meaning she had A LOT left in the tank.
This girls best 5k time for cross country was over 17 minutes. In this race her 5k pace over the 6k distance was a 16:17. This is unreal! Hope she is not blown out like Hoer from a few years ago.
[quote]VIPAM wrote:You're apparently lack the ability to comprehend or just being difficult. The difference in winning time is 20 plus seconds is were the 150 meters came up, I never mentioned if they went HEAD to HEAD Laura would win by 150 meters. quote]
This is what you said in your original post: "We all know how incredible Shelia Reid is and her amazing collegiate title runs and yet she would have finished almost 150m behind the freshman".
Sounds to me like you were implying that Laura would have beaten Sheila by 150 meters. "She WOULD have finished 150 meters behind the freshman" is what you wrote. No she wouldn't have.
I actually agree with most of what you and GoLaura are saying. I am very impressed with Laura. I don't think however that you can compare cross country races from year to year and make the assertion that someone would have beaten someone from a year earlier. None of us can know, but we can speculate what MIGHT have happened, although we would need to be able to measure the hardness of the course, the exact wind and which direction, etc. We can't do that and therefore cannot jump to conclusions such as Laura is better than last years NCAA champ. Again, this doesn't even take into consideration the different race strategies. How do we know Sheila was not told to win as easily as possible and only take off after 3000 meters. Some coaches don't want their athletes going all out in mid-season. Maybe Sheila could have gone out in 9:50. Maybe not. Who knows, who cares. The focus should be on what Laura did to the Iowa State girl. Simply amazing for a somewhat unheralded freshman running in her first ever 6k.
Windy wrote:
Conditions were favorable for a fast race in 2012 and Hollander ran like a Badass Mofo. It was something to see.
2011 had a softer (normal) course and much stronger winds.
Watch at least the first 15 seconds.
http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/240308-2011-Wisconsin-adidas-XC-Invitational/video/510319-Jennifer-Bergman-Arizona-15th-overall-3rd-place-team-at-Wisconsin-Invite-2011
Don't be giving evidence such as this to GoLaura. Someone like that makes up their mind on something and continues to keep arguing about it without trying to slow down and comprehend what is being written by others. EVERYONE on this thread appears to be very impressed with what Laura did. Not everyone believes Laura would have dominated last years NCAA champ, but GoLaura certainly believes. Keep believing GoLaura, but try to articulate what point you are trying to convey with something of more substance. Insults and lack of understanding of the points being made aren't going to cut it.
hahahaha wrote:
Honestly this thread is pretty disrespectful. What Sheila accomplished in her career, particularly in XC was amazing. Just cause a frosh ran about 30 seconds faster than Sheila in two completely different races doesn't mean shit. Shelia negative split by about a minute...meaning she could have gone out harder. However I'm pretty sure it was extremely windy last year as opposed to this year. There is no doubt in mind Sheila would have won this year. You can't compare two completely different races and say one runner is better than the other. Sheila completely dominated everyone when she raced....why would it have been any different in this particular race? Congrats to Laura, but lets not start crowning someone a champion based on one race.....
That freshman was pretty disrespectful of the field that she ran away from.
Forget the rest of the field, she ran away from a 31:15 10000m runner who placed sixth at the Kenyan Trials? Are you serious and you don't think she could have beaten Shelia Reid?
So you think Shelia Reid is that much better then Betsy Saina? really, Really, NOT!
UndefeatedFreshman wrote:
Forget the rest of the field, she ran away from a 31:15 10000m runner who placed sixth at the Kenyan Trials? Are you serious and you don't think she could have beaten Shelia Reid?
So you think Shelia Reid is that much better then Betsy Saina? really, Really, NOT!
It is nice to know that you know the exact current fitness of Saina. Really, really, not! People just need to stop speculating on things that they can't be sure of and just take this race for what it was worth, an amazing performance by a freshman. I watched the video and it was obvious that Saina misjudged Laura and was gaining on her rapidly at the end and did not look nearly as tired. Doesn't matter though as Laura got the win.
Could she have beaten Reid? Who knows. Will Saina beat her at NCAA's. Who knows, but at least on that question we will find out the answer.
UndefeatedFreshman wrote:
Forget the rest of the field, she ran away from a 31:15 10000m runner who placed sixth at the Kenyan Trials? Are you serious and you don't think she could have beaten Shelia Reid?
So you think Shelia Reid is that much better then Betsy Saina? really, Really, NOT!
It is nice to know that you know the exact current fitness of Saina. Really, really, not! People just need to stop speculating on things that they can't be sure of and just take this race for what it was worth, an amazing performance by a freshman. I watched the video and it was obvious that Saina misjudged Laura and was gaining on her rapidly at the end and did not look nearly as tired. Doesn't matter though as Laura got the win.
Could she have beaten Reid? Who knows. Will Saina beat her at NCAA's. Who knows, but at least on that question we will find out the answer.
Stop making excusing for Betsy Saina, Shelia Reid, and the rest of the field. The fact that the young lady destroyed the course record by so much should hint to her outstanding run.
Who know the exact fitness of Laura Hollander and if she hasn't peaked either then Betsy, D'Agostino, and whoever else will be put to the test in trying to reel Laura back in at NCCA X Championships.
Laura may not repeat such a performance at NCCA but if she goes out and runs sub 19 minutes then I don't care who tries they won't catch her.
It was a faster course with faster conditions (less wind, although the temperature effect was minimal, as last year was not at all hot) this year. Last year it was a race, where they were more modest, keeping things in check but racing very hard the last third of the race. Here, she had to run solo almost the entire race, which is pretty impressive. Last year, Lawi Lalang did the same thing and ran slower than he did this year when he held back early.
LH's race might not mean that she will win in November, but she has better upside than Reid. While 'unknown', she was a 10:10 high school runner that was a bit under the radar because she was not at that level in previous years and she is from a deep California running area.
Finally, she will get to run uninhibited by team scoring considerations.
26mi235 wrote:
It was a faster course with faster conditions (less wind, although the temperature effect was minimal, as last year was not at all hot) this year. Last year it was a race, where they were more modest, keeping things in check but racing very hard the last third of the race. Here, she had to run solo almost the entire race, which is pretty impressive. Last year, Lawi Lalang did the same thing and ran slower than he did this year when he held back early.
LH's race might not mean that she will win in November, but she has better upside than Reid. While 'unknown', she was a 10:10 high school runner that was a bit under the radar because she was not at that level in previous years and she is from a deep California running area.
Finally, she will get to run uninhibited by team scoring considerations.
.....
Nice post. We will never know if the course was faster but it was alittle bit more windy. The faster timeS should just be attributed to the youngster going out blazing and the pack trying to keep her close!