My fastest four or five 5Ks had relatively fast first miles, like around 4:50, with final times in the 15:10s and 20s. Did not break 15:30 by going out in 4:58 or 5+, even though the latter felt better. Longer races generally better with even splits. 6% is way too fast!
jump wrote:
running girl 79 wrote:Here is a study which indicates running the first mile of a 5K 6% faster than your most recent 5K pace produces a faster time than running the first mile of your 5K 3% faster than your 5K pace, or running the first mile of your 5K at your 5K pace. Granted it is a small study; and the researchers did not look at the effect running the first mile of a 5K 4% or 8% faster than 5K pace would have.
Thus, according to this study a 15:00 5Ker should aim to run his / her first mile in about 4:30; a 20:00 5Ker should aim to run his / her first mile in 6:03, or close to all out.
The main limitation of that study apart from sample size was that it only looked at females in the 18-21 minute PB range, so it is hard to know how it would extrapolate to someone with a sub-16 PB, although the OP didn't mention their times, so it still might be relevant. I suspect that as runners get faster, this study would become less relevant, and the even split/slightly negative splits seen as optimal for elite level runners becomes more relevant.
I'll make sure to let Galen know he needs to go out in 3:54 that first mile so he breaks the American record in the 5k.
i'd say you generally want to go out at about pace if the goal is a time and not a victory.
i've taken out races hard in order to break a competitor when i was unsure of the reliability of my kick (some days there, some days not) and ended up with good times.
my pr is, actually, from a hang-on race, but i went out at goal pace, i just dropped it after two miles :)
Summer '89, Oakland CA had a 20K with minor prize money, I think $300 for the winner. A 5K was run simultaneously.
I was going to do the 5k to get a workout in. I guess I was in about low 16 shape. Nothing special. I'm more of a miler, a 4:18 guy.
After about a mile, I decided to run the 20K for "fun". I went through 10K in 37:30 and was running out of gas. Could I finish?
I was dead meat at 9 miles, I mean seriously burnt toast. Pain and more pain. I hung on and ran 1:14:51.
Did I say my legs were sore the next day?
If you need to "trick yourself" into holding on it just means you have a bad assessment of your fitness, or poor confidence. An ambitious pace doesn't have to be tricking yourself. I like the idea of having intermediate goals - I want to reach mile 1 in x:xx, I want to run the next mile in x:xx if I can, and the next in x:xx if I still can, and hopefully I can hang on for another in x:xx. If I feel like shit I can go for broke and keep pushing or reevaluate my pacing strategy.
1977, my second marathon (first was 3:49). It was in Toronto, in August. A bunch of us went up from Buffalo.
This was long before GPS watches. The course was not marked and there was no 1 mile split, nor any markings at all until 5 miles.
My group (about 5 or 6 guys) hit 5 miles under 35 and were hugely surprised. We thought we were running well, but not that well.
Three of us said, What the hell, let's see if we can keep it up and hit something around 3.
The others fell back but I maintained until I got into trouble (calf cramps) about 22 or 23. Even so I managed 3:09 and thus my accidental going out too fast gave me a 40 minute PR.
Just go for it. Stick on the back end of the pack and give it a go. You will feel much better running with a bunch of your teammates than trying to make up ground in no man's land.
I have done this a couple times and I usually found out that I was in better shape than I thought. That and it is easier mentally to fight through the the pain and keep going at a pace with a big group than on your own trying to make up ground.
Go all in.
About a decade ago in a local 3 mile fun run I went out in a 4:40 first mile and hit the mile and a half in 7 minutes flat, soley to put the hurt on a buddy of mine who was starting to run competitively with me after years of dominating him.
I think that was the last time I beat him.
thank you everyone for your motivation. i have been feeling like crap on runs the past 1-2 weeks, and my mileage has cut in half of what it was because ive been feeling so tired and fatigued (still lingering effects of sickness probably. but i think if i take it easy and rest and try to save it up for one big effort this weekend maybe i will surprise myself. i dont want to get caught in no mans land like you said so i will just end up going out fast to stick with the pack and do my best to hold on. ive gone over the race a lot in my head and i know its going to hurt but i have to put it all out there.
You never know how you will feel on race day. I traveled to a half marathon a couple weekends ago. Woke up from a nap on the way with a sore throat and all my easy shake out runs the 2 days before sucked. I felt like a bag of crap and that I was going to DNF or have to jog the race. Ended up feeling pretty good on race day and ran 1:21 for a half (4+ min PR) on a pretty tough course. Just go into race day like it is a new day and you are there to race, forget about everything else
You'll have to provide more information if you want some good advice. How old are you? How long is the race? What was the sickness? What kind of times have you run? What kind of training did you do this summer? What kind of training have you done since? What exactly do you have to achieve (time, place) in order to stay on the team? What do you expect from your competitors?
The following story showed I obviously was fit enough to run the time, but at the time, I was nervous that I went out much too fast.
My 5th year in college I was the fittest I had ever been, and was entered in a 5K at Iowa State in January. At the time, I had a 15:04 personal best, and was hoping to break 15. I thought it was realistic, but still nervous as it was my first indoor 5K in 4 years, and first race in 3 months.
It went out hard and fast and after a couple laps I settled into a rhythm. I went out hard, but wasn't exactly sure where I was as Iowa State has a 300 meter indoor track. I passed the 1600 in 4:39, which was much too fast based on my personal best. At the time, I thought, well I might die, but I have already committed so I might as well stay smooth and strong and see what happens. Anyhow, I passed the 3200 in 9:22, and held on to run 14:45.
Now, I had obviously put in the consistent training to do this, but until you actually run the time, I had doubts about what I could do. It was real eyeopener and gave me the confidence to go on and run personal bests that spring from the mile through the 10K.
Sleep, hydrate, sleep, hydrate, run hard.
Lastly, you've put in the work this summer, so rest, rest, rest, and go for it. Good luck.
In Ron Clarke's book "The Lonely Breed" (a fantastic read, btw--I'd recommend that everyone try to find a copy), there's a chapter about Arthur Lydiard's competitive days.
In one New Zealand championship marathon (national "record" still over 2:40, I think), Lydiard faces another man who's been running extremely well (including a couple of 2:30 runs over 26mi *in training*, though AL was not aware of this, IIRC).
Lydiard deliberately set out at too fast a pace in the race, *knowing* that it would crush him (AL) but figuring it would hurt the other guy, who wasn't expecting it, more. [The races were always in the middle of the (summer)day, too, and typically on pretty hilly courses.]
Lydiard (with the other guy) went through ten miles around 55min.
Hey, forget this--I found the story online! It's fantastic:
http://www.lydiardfoundation.org/pdfs/TMHNS.pdf
Thanks to the Lydiard Foundation for posting this!
i dont want to provide too much info because i know some people i know read this website and could identify me. i am 20, the race is a 5k. the sickness was some virus/cold (started with a sore throat, then went to some sneezing/congestion and the extremely annoying fatigue i am facing now). i put in the best summer of my life, running ~10 mpw more on average than i have in any other base period and felt very fit. since i got sick almost 2 weeks ago, ive only run ~40 miles a week and that wasnt easy/i felt fatigued running it. only 1 hard workout (on the 2nd day i got sick, and it didnt go too well possibly because i ran too hard the day before), just runs since then that have felt bad. no specific place or time has been mentioned yet but i know i need to be mixing it up and be up there.
ephsteepler wrote:
Lastly, you've put in the work this summer, so rest, rest, rest, and go for it. Good luck.
Yeah. In Tokyo (1964), Billy Mills and Jim Ryun, who were roommates, got sick with some kind of virus. Mills just stayed in bed for a couple of days, drinking fruit juice; Ryun went out training anyway.
Ryun was wiped when it was time to race. He made it through his heat, but couldn't even take a cooldown run back to the Olympic Village afterward. In his semi he finished DFL.
By contrast, Mills finished ~14th in the marathon, and did fairly well in the 10,000m as well.
running girl 79 wrote:
Thus, according to this study a 15:00 5Ker should aim to run his / her first mile in about 4:30
Sure, if he wants to stagger home in 15:45 to 16:00.
As someone with a 5K PR of 14:57, I can tell you that this strategy would be pure suicide.
It's a little different for slower runners, My fastest race as a freshman in HS for 5K was 19:29 and I did that off a first mile of 5:38. Who knows what better pacing would have yielded, but even on a bad day while in 15:00 shape, no way could I manage a first mile that's only 29% of my final time. That's like someone going out in 4:24 to run 15:15.
i was still tired on my run yesterday but ive slept a lot and im only going to do a short jog today to try to save up as much as possible. ive heard of "checking out" where you throw in surges when you are fatigued to change things up. i know i can reasonably hang on the first mile (there will be discomfort but nothing crazy) when im healthy (hopefully i will be ready to go tomorrow) and it would be after that that i start feeling it... has anyone checked out for 2 miles?
Yes i do.
I was running a 5k one time, started off "too fast," but through sheer tyranny of will, hung on for glory*
*assuming your definition of glory is winning a local 5k....which it seems to be....which is pathetic.