Five Lessons Learned From Alberto Salazar

Of course Salazar forgot to mention that bike riding should not be utilized by distance runners.

They forgot #6 - Use gadgets.

.4) learn how to sprint

-Not really necessary unless you are a professional runner.

Then why even train!

Aiden Burley wrote:

Work on your form = slower, more injuries. This is proven

Form matters a lot. It determines how you distribute power and your running economy. The better your form is the less chance of injury you'll have. It also adds to your overall potential as a runner.

Trying to change your form drastically will certainly not be beneficial, but taking slow deliberate steps to perfect your form will make you a better runner.

That's why the best runners in the world all run pretty much the same; very slight forward lean, forefoot strike and very little bounce.

I can't see how the five things listed below are ideas, or tips. They seem pretty self evident in comparison doing the opposite, so who would actually learn from these?

1) take a long term approach

2) find good training partners

3) work on your running form

4) learn how to sprint

5) train your mind[/quote]

Here's proof that these are not really informative:

Who advocates not having a long term approach?

Who thinks bad training partners help or that you should not find good ones?

Who tells you to leave your running form unchanged if it has problems?

Who says never learn to sprint?

Who says leave your mind untrained, it will make you faster?

No one, so who actually needs the advice above?

running is better wrote:

which one is wrong?

1) take a long term approach

2) find good training partners

3) work on your running form

4) learn how to sprint

5) train your mind

Man, good thing we got this list. I can't imagine any coaches out there would encourage a long-term approach or finding good training partners. Work on your mind? Wow. Some real futuristic stuff here. 1, 2 and 5 are things you could find in Runner's World.

The only two ideas I'd say are even slightly interesting here are form work (probably unnecessary, possibly harmful - look at the wonders it worked for Ritz under Salazar...oh, wait...) and truly learning to sprint (which very few top runners outside of Salazar's camp have ever done).

Cool of him to share, though.

All the elites have similar form because only the people with good form can reach the elite level. But if you weren't gifted with a perfect form, trying to change it won't make you faster. In fact it will make you slower. If you have spent 5,000 - 10,000 hours running one way - do you really think you will be efficient after spending a few hundred hours running a new way?

OSU_FAN wrote:

Aiden Burley wrote:

Work on your form = slower, more injuries. This is proven

Form matters a lot. It determines how you distribute power and your running economy. The better your form is the less chance of injury you'll have. It also adds to your overall potential as a runner.

Trying to change your form drastically will certainly not be beneficial, but taking slow deliberate steps to perfect your form will make you a better runner.

That's why the best runners in the world all run pretty much the same; very slight forward lean, forefoot strike and very little bounce.

Where's the lesson of doping rupp and Farrah to the gills?

Aiden Burley wrote:

All the elites have similar form because only the people with good form can reach the elite level. But if you weren't gifted with a perfect form, trying to change it won't make you faster. In fact it will make you slower.

Not entirely true... it will depend on the athelete. Look at Seb Coe and his father. There is no one size fits all rule - but oh how we love to make them up!

Aiden Burley wrote:

All the elites have similar form because only the people with good form can reach the elite level. But if you weren't gifted with a perfect form, trying to change it won't make you faster. In fact it will make you slower. If you have spent 5,000 - 10,000 hours running one way - do you really think you will be efficient after spending a few hundred hours running a new way?

A) This is not true. Some elites land on their midfoot, others heel-strike. Some look like they are running smoothly and gracefully, while others look like they are running over uneven terrain even on the track. Did you ever see Paula Radcliffe run? She looked terrible!

B) If concentrating on your form makes you slower and injured, then I guess I wasted the last 5 years of my life. I was a 19:30 5Ker who overstrode and landed sharply on my heel, with my arms crossing in front of my body. I was injured every single season that I ran. I have consciously tried to fix those issues, and now I land on my midfoot with a better arm carriage. I have lowered my 5K PR by 3.5 minutes and have not been injured a single time since deciding to correct my form. So by your argument I would have been an Olympian had I just kept my old form, eh?

[quote]Aiden Burley wrote:

All the elites have similar form because only the people with good form can reach the elite level.[quote]

Mark Everett had horrible form. Michael Johnson's form was odd. Lots of other examples that were bad or different.

1. You can fit 24 relatives in a 2 bedroom house in Beaverton

2. You can park a 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass on the front lawn of your two bedroom house since Beaverton PD avoids Mexican gangs

3. You can mow lawns at commercial sites from 6AM then take Rupp and Farah out for workouts at 10AM, then finish up residentials in the afternoon

4. Gringos have to have salsa on tacos, burritos, everything while we don't

5. You don't need ID at PDX if tell them your're a descendant of the Romans

grty wrote:

6) get thyroid meds

7) get asthma meds

8) put EPO expert Stray-Gunderson on the payroll

That's what I've learned from Salazar.

Aiden Burley wrote:

All the elites have similar form because only the people with good form can reach the elite level. But if you weren't gifted with a perfect form, trying to change it won't make you faster. In fact it will make you slower. If you have spent 5,000 - 10,000 hours running one way - do you really think you will be efficient after spending a few hundred hours running a new way?

call me crazy but i happen to believe that if i spend a few hundred hours working on any skill i'll eventually become more efficient at it.

there are a few of us still waiting for "every study, ever" that proves working on improving your form makes you slower, more injury prone, and less efficient.

The point is you already spent 10,000 hours the other way, a few hundred hours is just a drop in the bucket. IF you are just starting out then you can change your form. But in most cases it is counter productive. If you have been running one way for 5 years, it will take you another 5 years until you are proficient in the new form. During that time you will have been slower than if you didn't try to change your form.

running is better wrote:

Aiden Burley wrote:

All the elites have similar form because only the people with good form can reach the elite level. But if you weren't gifted with a perfect form, trying to change it won't make you faster. In fact it will make you slower. If you have spent 5,000 - 10,000 hours running one way - do you really think you will be efficient after spending a few hundred hours running a new way?

call me crazy but i happen to believe that if i spend a few hundred hours working on any skill i'll eventually become more efficient at it.

there are a few of us still waiting for "every study, ever" that proves working on improving your form makes you slower, more injury prone, and less efficient.

Well if you were running 19:30 and now you are running 16:00, I'll take it that you were just a beginner runner when you started. The rules are different if you are just starting out, that is the time to try to work on your form. But also I would guess you would have made similar progress whether you worked on your form or not as you were probably maturing during the period.

Aiden Burley wrote:

Well if you were running 19:30 and now you are running 16:00, I'll take it that you were just a beginner runner when you started. The rules are different if you are just starting out, that is the time to try to work on your form. But also I would guess you would have made similar progress whether you worked on your form or not as you were probably maturing during the period.

I had been running for 5 years at that point, so while I certainly wasn't the runner I am now, I certainly was not a beginner runner. I'm sure I still would have made progress, but the point still remains that I consciously focused on changing my form, and got faster while accruing fewer injuries.

I was a 4:15 guy out of high school when I decided to change my form to a less over-extended, straight leg heel strike. There are pictures of me heel striking in spikes. It was pretty rough.

It took one whole summer, plus cross and half of indoor to shorten that up and midfoot strike. I dropped to 4:10, and cleared up a lot of chronic knee pain. I did this while getting my BS in Exercise Phys, so I wasn't exactly flying blind, and of course competing in DIII.

Is a total form overhaul necessary or good for everyone? No, because there are no silver bullets in our sport. But if something is broken, why not fix it? I just don't think you can make such a sweeping claim that working on improving form is negative for everyone. Just like I'm not trying to say it's positive for everyone.

Aiden Burley wrote:

The point is you already spent 10,000 hours the other way, a few hundred hours is just a drop in the bucket. IF you are just starting out then you can change your form. But in most cases it is counter productive. If you have been running one way for 5 years, it will take you another 5 years until you are proficient in the new form. During that time you will have been slower than if you didn't try to change your form.

i had been running for 15 years when i decided to overhaul my form. assuming 10 hrs/week, that's around 7,500 hrs of running. i was already pretty efficient from a biomechanics standpoint. took me all of 2 years to become more efficient, especially over the longer distances.

your claim is false for two reasons: 1) you have provided no empirical or anecdotal evidence and 2) there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that working on form makes a runner more efficient, faster, and less injury prone. when i have time next week i'll look for empirical evidence to support my point.