Would you use PEDs if it meant the differnce abject poverty and hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars?

douglas burke wrote:

it is not a matter of money, it is about honor, fairness, sportsmanship, and maintaining ones good name.

That's pie in the sky and not realistic. Have you seen abject poverty up close? Really. In addition, PEDs are used in most sports and I don't think that it makes a difference if you're from a rich or a poor nation. If you know any professional athletes from any sport (or if you have met any) then you probably have met someone using PEDs. It's not a matter of fairness and honor. That line begins to blur when you know the guy against whom you are competing is dirty. How can you be expected to beat out a guy who has an advantage over you? This specifically applies to the less talented crowd especially in sports like baseball and basketball. When you have a bunch of guys vying for a job and the majority are on something and you're not and you're going to potentially miss out on a career's worth of earnings, many guys will suck it up and use PEDs. I have friends in baseball, basketball and football at a professional level (MLB,NFL,NBA and overseas basketball) and unfortunately the majority of them have used PEDs at one time or another. I don't think any less of them because without them the playing field wouldn't be level.

This is very true. The ethics of drug taking it a load of crap. What do you do when a certain sport is all that you have known. You have trained 5+ hours a day from a young age and have proven as a junior you are one of the elite only to hit senoir level and get passed by unknowns and people you previously beat. Do you turn around and go "Hey the last 15 years of my life were for nothing, I guess I'll go become a checkout clerk"... At the end of the day this is peoples lives and if you dont take the drugs you lose your lifes work to get beaten by people you know your as good as if not better.

Absolutely, however that doesn't mean its being done. There are many other factors involved.

Let us assume that Kenyans and Ethiopians are using PEDs, how come it is not available in the other 52 countries in Africa, why only 2? I know that all these other countries would love to win medals, why not acquire drugs and be like Kenyans and Ethiopians? Kenyans and Ethiopian primary school kids will win over every other country hands down, are they using drugs too? Kenyan and Ethiopia do not perform well in sprints, are drugs not effective in sprint events?

douglas burke wrote:

it is not a matter of money, it is about honor, fairness, sportsmanship, and maintaining ones good name.

This is always coming from someone that if they had the chance with another aspect in life such as business they'd just as quickly squash the competition with every possible advantage.

That's an realistic scenario. You would always have the option of getting a real job.

Let's talk about this wrote:

Isn't it naive of us to assume that East Africans would choose not to use PEDs which would help them and their families escape destitution, hunger, and disease out of some high minded ideal that their use would be unfair to the already rich westerners (who likely have easier access to drugs)?

I am not understanding you.

Why East Africans?

Why not Gabonese, Gambians, Senegalese, Lesothians, Mauritanians, Chadians, Madagascans.....?

Why the E. Africans?

Also, your headline and your subject matter are disconnected. In other words, you are being irrelevant with regard to the question you posed to us.

If you're born into abject poverty with no forseeable way "out"....why on Earth would you have 8-9 kids or ANY children for that matter?

I was lucky enough to be born where I was born(states) but have always been in the low income bracket, one of major deciding factors for me for never having children. When I didn't use condoms I pulled out. I'm not gonna feel sad for some guy born in those conditions with a crap load of kids to feed.

However, I would understand if he took whatever to get wherever he wanted to go. At the end of the day it's about taking care of you and your's. When it's at the expense of others is when those "others" will have problems with it. I'm no world class runner so it doesn't directly effect me. Not advocating it either but I could understand where a guy was coming from if he had nothing to lose.

I'm a cyclist, not a runner, and I used them though I was not rasied in abject poverty. Using them brought me a whole lot more fame and money than I would otherwise have gotten.

Yes, that is the problem with Africa. Why have so many kids when you can't even support yourself? India and Brazil have similar problems. Just imagine live in a country like China with 1 billion people. No wonder the Chinese is emigrating over the globe. It must be awful to live in such conditions.

"When I didn't use condoms I pulled out. I'm not gonna feel sad for some guy born in those conditions with a crap load of kids to feed."

You're an idiot. The pull out method does not work. Sperm cells are more concentrated in pre-semen. You probably do have a crap load of kids, you just don't know about them. And if not kids, you probably have a crap load of STDs. Why the f--- would you not use a condom and still have the arrogance to go by the name "responsible" on this message board.

Now that I'm done ridiculing Mr. "responsible", I want to get back to the subject of this discussion. Does anyone know how many times and Ethiopian or Kenyan runner who is living and training in their native country has tested positive for PEDs?

In the Dominican Republic we play fair and square. We would never take PEDs or lie about our age or our identity just to get out of our third world nation. It is not worth a 250 million dollar contract to tarnish our good names. Steroids are legal in th DR but we would never take them and cheat the legit US players out of jobs, it just wouldn't be right!

How many times does anybody test positive for PEDs. One of the most insightful movies I have seen was regarding the Ben Johnson and drugs in track and field. In the 1984 Olympics countless positive drug tests went missing. The documentary recounts from Ben Johnson how easy it was not to get caught, and as it turns out virtually the entire field was doping. Its a catch 22 because most athletes know that to make olympic finals you have to dope but nobody talks about it. If you get caught to the average observer your demonized and if you dont your a star.

Regarding the initial question yes every time. Whether the athletes know they are on something or think they are getting B6 shots is another story. In athletics you either perform or starve. only the upper echelon get paid and you dont spend the your life training for something to get beaten because someone is on something that your not.

You either suck it up and dope or change career.

And i'm referring to everyone that wants to get competitive on the circuit. Not just East Africans.

Let's get real here. The American's that are getting busted for taking PEDS are overwhelmingly...(politically uncorrect to say outloud...) African...American.

So, poor is relative.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

So what was the motiviation for Lance?

VICTORY, BABY!

i would use then if i was going to be a star

I like how devoted people get to following laws here, it would be nice to see such devotion to traffic laws

Spelling tit wrote:

douglas burke wrote:

it is not a matter of money, it is about honor, fairness, sportsmanship, and maintaining ones good name.

If you were living on $.03 per day on war-torn Somalia I think you might feel differently

Well Mo Farah left there and has beat all their records. You need to look at your sprinters rather than look at cheats in other countries