Rock & Roll Las Vegas backlash

calsnailer wrote:

No problems near the front of the race - no walkers in our way, no issues with marathoners....mile markers were there (although I missed the one and nine mile markers). Clocks at more than half of the mile markers (but not all of them); markers seem accurate. Everyone went out crazy fast but the 5K split seemed accurate in terms of distance. A lot of people crashed because of the fast first few miles.....my Garmin said 13.17 for the total distance, which seems right on.

How fast did one have to run not to have half marathoners in their way?

I will not run a marathon if I know the full and half runners merge and put slow runners/walkers in front of faster runners. This is just a basic, common-sense example of 'what NOT TO DO' for a race organizer. I think it is a result of not having experienced runners on the commitees laying out the race course.

The 'sport' has really changed. My club helps with course marshalling on a local 5K (5K marathon?). I volunteered and was put at about the 1.5mile mark just to direct runners in the right direction. I figured I'd be there about 30minutes max - I mean who takes longer than 30minutes to get to the 1.5mile mark of a 5K?! 45 minutes in there were STILL people coming through and complaining of how much further they still had to go. Unbelievable.

And now allegations of cheating for the CEO of Competitor??????

As best as we can tell, Mr. & Mrs. Englehart's results have been removed from the RnR-LV's searchable results. Peter Englehart is the CEO of Competitor Group. He and his wife ran the half-marathon together. Mrs. Englehart's reported finish time is only ten minutes shy of the world record for a woman of her age. They averaged 6:31 pace. Very impressive. Both also finished in the top of their age groups. But now their results have been removed, and we would like to know why. And more importantly, if their results are not valid, have the right age group winners been informed? We hope someone from Competitor/RnR will provide answers. If Mr. & Mrs. Englehart didn't complete the course (cheated) then shame on them.

Had quite a few friends travel to run this race because of the flat/fast course. All of them noted it was a cluster f%#@.

Nice to see outrage, but, race directors will continue to put on bad races because the uninformed charity jogger/walkers and joggers just want to check-off their bucket list and don't really care about anything else.

They were getting drinking water from fire hydrants by filling up "lined" garbage cans. People got sick after the race as a result.

There is no stopping Competitor Group. They have dozens of marathon/halfs in addition to tris, muddy buddys and other events. Everty time they show up, they have a debacle. But the lemmings just keep showing up. San Antonio was a disaster when Comptetior took over. But, people kept coming. Local officials look the other way because Competitor takes events from 4-5,000 participants to 20,000+.

The only hope is for a rival to emerge that gets away from the whole "marathon experience" (i.e. bands, rock concerts, deals with TnT) and focuses on events for people who want to race and have a quality experience on the course.

Did Larry Barthlow put this thing on? Sounds like his type of screw up. I ran 2 of his races and learned my lesson!

What a whining bitch. I cannot take anyone wearing reindeer antlers seriously. Todays marathons cater to wimps by having aid stations at every other mile (water, electrolytes, gu, powerbars, 7 course meals, etc.), pacers, gold medals for 9 hour finishers-the list goes on. Recently I ran a local 10 mile race with 100 "Runners" (just about a dozen of us were competitive.) Runners, particularly Women, were pissed because there was "only" 3 water/Gatorade (sorry, no food) stations & no timing chips! If you don't like the conditions stay home. With you pussies out of the way, the race would be a hell of a lot more affordable.

So cheating is now allowed at these debacles?

rhinestone cockpiece wrote:

And now allegations of cheating for the CEO of Competitor??????

As best as we can tell, Mr. & Mrs. Englehart's results have been removed from the RnR-LV's searchable results. Peter Englehart is the CEO of Competitor Group. He and his wife ran the half-marathon together. Mrs. Englehart's reported finish time is only ten minutes shy of the world record for a woman of her age. They averaged 6:31 pace. Very impressive. Both also finished in the top of their age groups. But now their results have been removed, and we would like to know why. And more importantly, if their results are not valid, have the right age group winners been informed? We hope someone from Competitor/RnR will provide answers. If Mr. & Mrs. Englehart didn't complete the course (cheated) then shame on them.

The Competitor Group is completely misnamed. They have done away with elite competition, reasonable prize money, and good organization in favor of the "Experience Run" and massive profits. Unfortunately, this is working for them as the masses pay outrageous entry fees to run/walk with thousands of others who stop to listen to a band every mile. Then they pick up a medal at the finish as if walk/jogging 13mi could not be done by any healthy human with no training (actually they are proving it).

Take our sport back. Stop going to these experience events. Go to races that are put on by your local running club. Pick based on a history of accurate courses, good competition and no frills. These races are usually reasonably priced and you get a medal only if you place top 3 in your age group. These races are still available most everywhere, but will go away slowly if we do not patronize them.

Precious Roy wrote:

They were getting drinking water from fire hydrants by filling up "lined" garbage cans. People got sick after the race as a result.

Getting water in this fashion is actually not uncommon. A lot of major races do it and don't have any problems.

That being said, I know several people who ran Vegas and they all have multiple stories about what a cluster it was.

I have a realtive who trained for 7 months for this race and spent close to a grand on the whole experience; she rolled the race into a mini vacation. She did not wittnes all of the things being discussed her, but she is crushed that they don't have a finish line picture of her. A picture is probably not a bid deal to most Letsrunners, but to someone who is not a runner per se and lost 30 lbs tarining for their first marathon, the finish line picture is a really big deal.

Btw, this individual ran the entire race, didn't even stop at the aid stations and negative split faster than her half marathon PR. She said she ran as hard as she physically could, pooped in pants, experienced cramps, blisters and could barely walk the next day. She said the race hurt like heck, but that's what she was expecting. She didn't run a great time by Letsrun standards, but hearing her talk about her effort made me proud.

I don't have a problem with people running slow, but you have to prepare and then give it your all.

I read this thread and didn't think much of it, but then I read the Facebook page that the original poster listed and was taken aback by the comments.

One woman talks about how she was disappointed that she and her husband weren't able to renew their wedding vows at the wedding chapel along the course (which was part of the race experience).

I have been running since 1975 and I run a few local road races each year and I race direct two local races as well, but I have never done one of these mega-experience events (Muddy Buddy, R&R...). I'm quite sorry to see that this has become the way of road races these days.

Above is link to the runnersworld forum where the President actually posted about an individual saying the CEO might have cheated. It was slightly odd that he didn't take the typical business approach of "customer is always right". But instead went with what appears to be a defensive approach. And can only alienate more runners.

Like which major marathons? I have never seen anyone scooping water out of trash cans to give to runners. This is the same thing the Competitor group CEO claimed, and it sounds like BS

race director and staff member wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

They were getting drinking water from fire hydrants by filling up "lined" garbage cans. People got sick after the race as a result.

Getting water in this fashion is actually not uncommon. A lot of major races do it and don't have any problems.

That being said, I know several people who ran Vegas and they all have multiple stories about what a cluster it was.

i read through most of the complaints on fb (slow day) and noticed that if you pimp your "running" blog its a 99% chance you're just slightly faster than a turtle. and i don't know if it was just my personal experince but if a marathon "changes your life" you're not a real runner. your first marathon should only change your training plans not set you on some course for world domination. no hate for the runners who have no speed mind you, as i'm one of them.

Lots of vitriol, and perhaps it's deserved.

But I'll say this, I ran New Orleans back in February, and it was a pretty good experience. It seemed organized and the course didn't merge with the marathoners. They even had separate approaches and finish lines for the half vs full.

The first corral was relatively secure too. Sure you had people jump the fence when the attendants weren't looking, but not many. And several got caught and pulled out of the corral.

I don't recall getting nickel and dimed either. I signed up 4 months in advance and paid something like $85, and that was it. I hate that you have to be there in person to get your bib though, no surrogates allowed.

Concur--I set up water stations for 3 large running events and that is how we do it as 2 of the 3.Hydrant water is the same as tap water. Exactly the same. The trash cans are lined with clean bags, and if volunteers use gloves, there should be reduced health risksUsing bottles is actually more environmentally harmful. Bottled water exposes the race to running out of water on hot days. With hydrants, the only limiting factor is cups. As long as you have enough cups--you have a continuing supply of water.The rest of the complaints against RnR, I wasn't there to comment on.

race director and staff member wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

They were getting drinking water from fire hydrants by filling up "lined" garbage cans. People got sick after the race as a result.

Getting water in this fashion is actually not uncommon. A lot of major races do it and don't have any problems.

That being said, I know several people who ran Vegas and they all have multiple stories about what a cluster it was.

Maybe it's time to borrow from Nick Symmonds and start a "I am tired of Rock 'n' Roll and Competitor Group ruining my sport" Facebook group. Anyone in?

DogRun wrote:

Maybe it's time to borrow from Nick Symmonds and start a "I am tired of Rock 'n' Roll and Competitor Group ruining my sport" Facebook group. Anyone in?

I'd join.

As far as water stops go, the last time I worked one (Austin Marathon, year before last, I think?) we used trash cans with liners, filled with a hose connected to a hydrant, and used plastic pitchers to fill the cups. And yes, we all had gloves. The only thing that was a real drag was that there was no title sponsor that year, so the organizers couldn't afford gator/powerade at every stop. Our stop didn't have it, and boy did people bitch. I don't blame them. You can put bands all over the course, but not electrolytes at every stop? Seriously?

I had two friends who "ran" the half that year. Had never run a step until three months prior. One was a heavy smoker. They both barely finished in the top half overall.