10 Most Untouchable High School T & F Records

why in the article does it say that one reason why Webb's Mile record won't be broken for a long time is because the event is rarely run??

if they are talking about professional running then yes that's true. But the 1600 is run in every meet. the full mile isn't run much, but if someone was running blazing enough 1600's to have a go at the record then there are plenty of big meets that would put on a mile for an attempt.

also, obviously its been 10 years since the record, but i didn't even think about that till i read the article. its already been a full 10 years. thats crazy. we've had several of the best milers in HS history come along in the past 10 years but none of them have even broken 4 yet (can LV do it this year? maybe). i wonder how long it will be till that next transcendent runner comes along that can break that record. that's the type of record where there might be a couple people a century that even have a shot at it if they train super hard and don't get hurt and everything goes perfect.

Webb was on fire that year. He ran 3:59 and 8:45 indoors. So he was on for big things that spring. He ran a 4:06 1600 in his regional meet where he closed in 1:51 or 1:52.

I was thinking he had a shot of 3:56 at the Prefontaine meet and he ran the perfect race and it still is the most excitement and shocking track performance I've eve watched live, only ones to compare were Bolts sprints and Ben Johnson in Seoul.

" 7. Girls 800 (2:00.07, Kim Gallagher, Fort Wash. Upper Dublin, Pa., 1982)

Yes, 1982, almost 30 years ago. Kim Gallagher and Mary Decker (later Mary Decker-Slaney) had some sensational battles starting as age group runners so they toughened each other up until both were among the best in the nation by the time they were seniors."

Not sure about the reference to Decker-Slaney and Gallagher toughening one another up as age groupers. Gallagher set the 800M High School record just one year prior to Decker's World Championship Double in 1983. Weren't they about 7 - 8 years apart in age?

Kenny F. Powers wrote:

I would .... take off the girls 3200.

Agreed. Too many girls have been within sniffing distance of 9:48 to call it that strong of a record....Hasay and Sisson were down around 9:51/52, plus there's Amber Trotter would have almost been a sure bet to get it had she not gotten injured spring of her senior year. It would be great to see Cuffe get it this year.

6/10 based on some of your weakest list.

watchout wrote:3. Boys 4xMile (17:06.6 - South Eugene OR)

Third weakest? I agree that it's not the strongest, but any one team having 4 HS guys that can go average 4:16.65 back to back in the same race seems rather ridiculous. The 500th fastest high school miler of the past 53 years managed 4:12.4. I don't know how many kids have run 4:16, but the odds of having 4 guys on the same team that can average 4:16 on the same day is outrageously low.

Jordan Hasay 4:14 1500m will be pretty tough to beat

The chances that 44.69 is "clean" <100%

Hmmmmmmmmmm wrote:

watchout wrote:3. Boys 4xMile (17:06.6 - South Eugene OR)

Third weakest? I agree that it's not the strongest, but any one team having 4 HS guys that can go average 4:16.65 back to back in the same race seems rather ridiculous. The 500th fastest high school miler of the past 53 years managed 4:12.4. I don't know how many kids have run 4:16, but the odds of having 4 guys on the same team that can average 4:16 on the same day is outrageously low.

The longer the race is, the more that can go wrong... this hurts longer relays in these types of comparisons.

This is how I looked at all of the relays:

-Find the average leg split

-Account for the 3 legs with a running start (i.e., for the 4x100m, an athlete that runs a 10.50 from scratch would be expected to run a split of 9.62 unless he was the first leg, or taking a look from the other side a 4x100m relay that averages 11.13 from scratch; the longer the race, the less significant the running start adjustment is. 100m adjustment is 92.5%, 200m is 96.25%, 400m is 98.125%, etc.)

-Multiply the average split by 95% (re: average leg should be ~5% slower than a record individual mark; this works well for the 4x100, but less so for other events, getting worse as you go along as more things inevitably didn't go as perfectly in longer races)

So, for the 17:06.6 4xMile record, that is a 4:16.65y, which would be a ~4:03.8y for in individual event.

Compare that to the sprint relays and it makes more sense...

39.76 4x100m would be equal to a 10.01 for 100m (interestingly, exactly matching the individual record) after accounting for the 5% relay adjustment, or 10.53 before it (what the 4 guys probably would have averaged if they ran each leg from scratch)

1:23.31 4x200m would be equal to a 20.36 for 200m after accounting for the 5% relay adjustment, or 21.43 before it

3:07.40 4x100m would be equal to a 45.14 for 400m after accounting for the 5% relay adjustment, or 47.52 before it

etc. ..

So, again, longer relays are going to be at a disadvantage when you look at it like this, because in a longer race more mistakes can be made (or more variance in performance, if you prefer to look at it in that regard). I just didn't feel it right to try to account for a different variance of performance from longer races, or to account for varying typical depth in, say, the 100m/200m vs. the 800m/mile.

well demario wesley i want to say ran 10.12 or something his senior your for O.D. wyatt so 10.50's is not too accurate

i agree with spencer wrote:

well demario wesley i want to say ran 10.12 or something his senior your for O.D. wyatt so 10.50's is not too accurate

Wesley ran 10.23, but I did say average, and we are talking about what they ran on that day and not necessarily their PRs...

How about Christine Babcock's 4:33 1,600-meter record run in 2008? No one will come close to that, the fastest miler in the nation last year was only 4:41.

Anyone remember the legendary year of 2006, when 4:45 was fifth place at the California State Meet ... 1)C. Babcock 4:41, 2) A. Kosinski 4:42, 3) S. Murakami 4:43, 4) A. St. Geme 4:43, 5) N. Blood 4:45 ... and I believe sixth place at that state finals was 4:47. A mile time of 4:47 would be the fastest time of the year in most states nowadays.

I thought Chelsey Sveinnson would of been able to challenge Babcock's 4:33 after her 4:40 during her sophomore year, but doesn't look like it was meant to be.

I definitely disagree on both the boys and girls 4xMile records being two of the weakest on the list. It takes something special to get four runners to run well on the same day and all-time great squads to even think about those two records, 17:06.6 and 19:56.75. However, if someone is going to break those two records, it's going to be this year. Arcadia has the depth, especially with Ammar Moussa (4:10) and Sergio Gonzalez (4:16) up front leading the way. I'm rooting for Arcadia! On the girls side, this may be Saugus' best and only chance at that national record with such great competition, such as Redondo Union and La Costa Canyon, and an incredible group or milers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Saugus' top seven milers have personal records of 4:54 (Mahoney), 4:54 (Bulder), 5:05 (Frankian), Hernando (5:06), 5:10 (Kado), 5:18 (McCarty), 5:18 (Jauregui) and not quite sure what Hampton (2:16 800, 11:08 3200, 18:13 5K) has run before, plus Hernando, Kado, McCarty and Jauregui are even better than last year so we could witness something special in April. It's just a race against time for the Arcadia boys and Saugus girls, can either squads be ready by April to challenge these records?

Without arguing for their rank, I would like to point out two marks by friends of mine which have stood since 1977 and 1978, respectively, both impressive because they are in events that tend to require greater physical age to master. I refer to Clancy Devery's 2:23:05 marathon in 1977, his junior year, which TAFNEWS unaccountably lists as aided, although it was at Trail's End, a loop course, ending where it started, and Jeff Hess's 8:50 steeple, in 1978, I believe. Both marks have been around a third of a century. True, not frequently run, but nonetheless...

Hmmmmmmmmmm wrote:

watchout wrote:3. Boys 4xMile (17:06.6 - South Eugene OR)

Third weakest? I agree that it's not the strongest, but any one team having 4 HS guys that can go average 4:16.65 back to back in the same race seems rather ridiculous. The 500th fastest high school miler of the past 53 years managed 4:12.4. I don't know how many kids have run 4:16, but the odds of having 4 guys on the same team that can average 4:16 on the same day is outrageously low.

When I ran against Alan Webb in high school, it seemed apparent there were kids moving to go to school at South Lakes to run with him on things like the 4x800. You could have a hs talent that attracts a 4xmile team around him.

watchout wrote:

and the 10 weakest:

1. Girls 4xMile (19:56.75 - Suffern NY)

2. Girls 4x800m (8:43.12 - Roosevelt MD)

3. Boys 4xMile (17:06.6 - South Eugene OR)

4. Boys 4x800m (7:30.67 - Albemarle VA)

5. Girls Mile (4:34.9c - Jordan Hasay, CA)

6. Girls 2 Mile (9:52.1c - Kim Mortensen, CA)

7. Boys 800m (1:46.45 - Michael Granville, CA)

Granville's are one of the tougher ones. On the other hand, German Fernandez's 3200m/2M records are the weakest on books, and the first national high school records likely to fall.

Ummmmmmmmm.........so where does Rudy Chapa's 28:32.7 10K rank?

This is what we should see:

The strongest records should be simple events that are run at every meet, and where the participants always or nearly always give 100%. The 100, 200, 400, 4x100, 4x400, long jump, shot put.

The weaker records should the events that are rarely run (like the mile, 2-mile, steeple, 4x200), where there is more strategic pacing involved (like 800 and up), or that require more skill (hurdles, discus, pole vault, triple jump). The skill barrier is one that some people just can't learn, so inevitably there is a smaller pool of athletes to choose from. For example, without even looking at the records I'm going to guess the long jump is stronger than the triple jump because it's simply easier to learn, so historically I'm guessing there are many more long jump performances. Is that true? I'll have to look, but it's what I expect to find.

It is POSSIBLE the "strongest" one goes down this year. Crouser has already thrown 77-2 indoors...he probably wont break 81-3 but I can see him getting after 80 feet this year...