USATFNE Championship DMR Huge Official Error costs a MAsters team an American and possibly World Record

Uh oh. The over 40 crowd has it's collective back up.

It's masters racing. It means nothing.

This is like nitwit Ken Stone referring to some 80 year old running a mile in 9 mins that he "equates" to a 3:42 open mile.

Are there ever going to be any results from this S show?

I loved how the check-in officials caused quite the panic before both the men's 5k AND mile as they completely forgot to do their jobs and ACTUALLY check people in.

I saw the fat timing guy (wilber timing, maybe?) shove his way through the crowd (not around) more than once, stiff arming athletes in the back and chest, yanking them out of his way by the arm to get to the table in a huff and puff. It was pretty rude and I witnessed multiple people getting pretty pissed off about it. One athlete politely said to the guy "I'm not a piece of meat, sir." To which the fat guy replied through his rabid spit-foamed mouth, "I don't have to let you race, you know?"

I was pretty surprised. . .

It was a very confusing scene and regrettably, more than a handful of athletes suffered because of it (wrong heats, missed races, etc). We left just after our last guy finished the 3K, so I didn't see the DMR portion of the S show, but somehow I am not surprised by any of what was said in the previous posts.

Steve V. is the man, but the check in officials and the finish line crew left a bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths, I think. . .

I don't mean to come on here and pile up more on the officials, but if anyone from USATF New England does read this thread, I have one suggestion for next year - offer online registration. Who mails entry forms these days? Every other meet seems to be on directathletics.com.

I'm sure it will cut down on the race day entries which will make your job easier, and it's easier for all of us too. But otherwise I have no complaints with how the meet was run, thanks for offering this event.

So I'm guessing that the OP is the anchor leg. There are three people that should be held responsible for the error: the official and both runners involved (the other members of the relay could also have been counting laps). But why come to this forum to complain about it? What is that going to accomplish?

I know it's always a letdown after BU, where check-in and heat assignments are done far ahead of time, but if you want to attract top athletes from the region then try to run the meet more professionally. They were checking athletes in and assigning heats far too close to the start of some races, leading to some missed heats and several more close calls.

I didn't realize that on top of the less-than-stellar check-in and starting line work, there was outright rudeness by officials (or maybe just one). I'm always disappointed by such behavior because officials are likely underpaid or volunteers, so you would think they'd be doing it because they want to. If they have disdain for the athletes, I'm sure they could find another way to spend their weekends.

Finally, to the minority on here bashing masters running: please take your negativity elsewhere. The Eliot guys and all other competitive masters runners work just as hard as most of the younger post-collegiate club guys like myself. Wish they could have gotten the race they deserved yesterday.

I was also (somewhat) shocked at how rude the officials were and the complete lack of organization on this meet.

Calling for the Men's 5K to get on the line before we were checked in.

Not knowing how many heats there were going to be when the women's race had about 800 to go.

But, it's one thing to be a moron and not know how to run an efficient track meet. It is a completely different thing to be outright rude to the athletes (your customers)

While lining up for the 5K the official asked us in a very rude tone "you guys know how numbers go right?? they go in numerical order"

There was no reason for this as we were already lined up in order, based on the numbers we had gotten about 2 minutes prior.

The USATF has got to be the worst organization in all of sports.

Are Distance Medley Relays run anywhere else in the world other than the USA?

Can something that isn't an official distance or relay even be considered a world record?

What's to stop people submitting records for officially timed and measured distances such as the 950m for example?

Not trolling - just curious as to what the protocols are for such things. There seem to be too many contrivances here.

Andrew Moraghan

There aren't many 5Ks to race at indoors. BU mini meets have no 5K, but maybe that's a good thing. Harvard Open didnt have one this year. GBTC invite doesnt have one, and BU Valentine limited the 5K field to only those <15:30. So it appears the only options it appears were Terrier Classic and USATF-NEs and one early season meet at Reggie.

This situation was clearly unfortunate. I was a solid NCAA Div-I runner. When I raced, racing is the ONLY thing I focused on. Everything else was handled by supporting characters (splits, laps, even a bell telling us it was time to sprint!). Thank goodness for that -- after a few consecutive 28-second 200s, my brain always turned to mush!

Paid or not, meet officials are there to direct traffic. When an official directed me to the track, I went. I wasn't thinking about whether I was supposed to be there. I was thinking about the RACE.

As for you bashers (whether you're bashing Masters, Seniors, Race Walkers, Hot Dog eating, etc), you can't possibly be a true sportsman. To belittle any category of any sport is like saying that only world-class athletes have any right to compete...or feel any sense of accomplishment.

Therefore, if you are a basher and don't own an Olympic medal, your entire athletic life (and indeed your presense on these boards) is and has been a complete waste.

Nonsense.

ANYONE who competes at ANY level displays a level of dedication and courage that most humans lack. That doesn't entitle them to your adoration, but it should engender your respect...or at least your silent disrespect.

Just my humble 2-cents,

1K

nyloco wrote:

The Masters World record is quite a bit better than 11:01:

http://www.masterstrack.com/saved/records-old.html

Distance medley age 40-49: 10:19.11 Masters of L.A./USA (Peter Magill, Cornell Stephenson, Angel Roman, David Olds) 03/22/2003, Northridge, CA

This was outdoors. I don't know the indoor record, but I recall hearing it's in the 10:30 ballpark.

World Masters Athletics does not list any such record. They don't list DMR at all.

Moz wrote:

Are Distance Medley Relays run anywhere else in the world other than the USA?

Can something that isn't an official distance or relay even be considered a world record?

What's to stop people submitting records for officially timed and measured distances such as the 950m for example?

Not trolling - just curious as to what the protocols are for such things. There seem to be too many contrivances here.

Andrew Moraghan

All distances are arbitrary. The 800 is no better than the 950 or the 600, the only difference is who you can get to agree to recognize the distance. For example, the IAAF recognizes the 800 for record keeping purposes but not the 600 or 950. However, other bodies/people DO maintain records for the 600 (for example, my home state, where the 600 is part of the high school indoor state meet). But I don't know of anyone who cares about the 950. You could start your own club team and maintain team records for the 950 if you want.

So yeah, it's all arbitrary. But depending on who recognizes the event (ie, IAAF, high school sports organization, or your local club team), some events are generally regarded as more legitimate than others.

Thanks voice of the athlete.

If it's clearly not a widely contested distance recognised as official by the ruling organisation then we're better off not advertising them as world records. Otherwise it starts to look like the Guinness book of records and it makes it all a bit of a joke.

nyloco wrote:

The Masters World record is quite a bit better than 11:01:

This was outdoors. I don't know the indoor record, but I recall hearing it's in the 10:30 ballpark.

It's the indoor record that's 11:01 (or 11:02)

Apparently, part of the problem was that in order to save time, they combined the men and the women. So there were just too many people on the track. It was confusing.

I don't think the Eliot guys blame the officials. They're certainly not the type to hold grudges. They do realize they are also responsible for knowing how many laps they're running.

Results are up:

http://www.coolrunning.com/results/11/ma/Feb20_USATFN_set1.shtml

My buddy ran 8:50 in the 3k and they have his time here as 9:08? And the guy who finished right behind him at like 8:51 is listed as 9:01? Okaaay...

Solution - there is a solution to all of this...no one seems to want to adopt one, but there are ways to prevent this...

The officals need to make it or should i say allow it to be the athletes responsiblity to count laps. the problem now is the officals make all decisions - so when they are wrong there is no way for an athlete who knows how many laps remain to over-ride the officals.

Same thing happen to me and others in the NAIA national indoor championships on the 1200 (3/4 mile)in 1983 - the officals put the milers on the track a lap too soon (the order was 1/2 mile, 1/4 mile, 3/4, mile- there was nothing we (the runners) could do...i wanted to run one more lap and not give up the baton, but guess what - had i done that my team would have been the one DQ'ed for not following the officials.

The solution is for all distance race lap counting to be the responsibility of the runners themselves (since we generally know how many laps we have done and have left & if we make a mistake it will then be all our fault and if one runner and only one runners is in error it will only affect that runner or their team if this is a relay).

So the officals only role is to watch for cut in and lane line violations and place runners in proper order during the handoffs. If a runner mistakenly takes to the track a lap early in a relay = they are allowed to line up and then DQ'ed after the race. If other relay runners mistakenly follow their lead - also DQ'ed. If one smart team counts lap properly and waits = they win; their time is offical and counts towards records.

If it is an open event and you kick a lap early - you hurt only yourself. If you think there are two laps left when there are only one - you hurt only yourself. So the gun or bell lap needs to be omitted since the race officals can and do screw up using it.

The gun/bell is suppposed to signal the last lap of the race - the problem is when fired a lap early and they catch their mistake they sometimes have the runners go that final lap (after the gun lap)

As it is now, if you hear the gun lap you cannot assume it is the last lap...because they may have shot the gun a lap early and you have no way of knowing if they will ask you to run another lap as you come around on that gun lap (i know becuase i have seen it happen as a coach eventhoough i and my runner knew full well there were two laps left...because the meet officals have to final power to decide how to correct their screw-up on the fly and there is no standard protocol for how they do this, the athelte and coaches are put in limbo as how to react). On the other hand if we knew it was our responsiblity to count laps - my runner would have know to just want another lap and then kick. Problem solved.

same with the relays - if you know they are putting you on the track a lap early, you have the right to say no - i'll wait till the previous runner has gone the full distance and you will not be DQ'ed for doing the correct thing.

I'm glad to hear we weren't the only ones who thought the starter and timer were flaming A-holes!

A teammate of mine ran the hurdles and was screamed at by the fat timing guy in a red polo (it said "wilber" on it, so I'm guessing he was from the same crew as stated above). My teammate ran through the finish line up onto the track a few strides; because at the same time the RACE WALK was going on. The sprinters had about 5-10 meters to slow down and come to a complete stop before hitting the edge of the track. The officials didn't warn the runners about this until they reached the finish line.

Most people had some aware-with-all to throw on the brakes, as so not to collide with a 65+year old race walker. . . Others didn't. . . Understandably. How did the race officials think this was a good idea?

The sloppy wilber timer flipped out on my friend like he was talking to some punk neighborhood kid with crappy parents, running around, breaking friggin' windows in the neighborhood, or something. "If his parents won't discipline that little bastard: I will, dammit!"

The wilber timing team needs to have a seminar in professional etiquette and appropriate human-to-human behavioral interactions. Just my opinion.

Or at least that fat dooooooosh in the red polo needs a broken noise to fix his pretentious attitude.

Ohhh man. There is pretty much not a single athlete in the men's 3k results who has the correct time or place. Nice.

the race was run in yards so the record wouldn't have counted anyway