Collective bargaining is a basic right of workers

Automatic raises? What fxcking state/county/city do you live in? I live near DC and every govt entity has had a raise freeze for at least 18months and most counties are on their 3 year of this....Govt workers are paid better than private sector? Really back that up with some data? middle management at the Treasury Dept. gets paid better than middle management at Exxon Mobil? Again hook me up with this data.Our govt is bankrupt because of greed. Greed from many sources the less of which is middle class govt workers.Corp American is struggling because the cost of the current recession is only placed on the middle class on down.

government thugs wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

Public workers do face reality. They commit themselves to working for government at salaries that are lower than what they could get in the private sector. Most government jobs are dead end jobs with minimal chance for advancement and salary enhancement. .

What planet are you from? Government workers are the highest paid sector in our economy. They have the best benefits. They have the best pensions. They get automatic raises every year. Because of it, our government is bankrupt.

There is no such thing as a "worker's right" as distinct from an "employer's right." An individual worker has the right to take a job or leave it, and an individual employer has the right to establish its own terms of employment. Companies who offer the better terms will attract better workers. Long before unions destroyed manufacturing in America, Ford Motor Co. offered its workers salaries and hours that were unheard of at the time, and dramatically increased its profitability as a result of retaining the best and most productive workers. Henry Ford made the unions look useless and the union leaders despised him for it, only became more aggressive and stepped up their demands to justify their existence. Unions, like all entities, are self-interested; they exist to protect the interest of unions, not the rights of workers.

dutchrudder wrote:

Govt workers are paid better than private sector? Really back that up with some data?

According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, a federal statistics-gathering agency, federal worker compensation in 2009 averaged $123,049, which was double the private-sector average of $61,051.

When the economy was strong teachers did not get big raises..no bonuses. Thier wages were froze twice in the last 10 years(during strong economic times). They are required to continue thier education with hardly any reimbursement. They do a lot.

Back in the day teachers were respected. Now they looked down upon. They probably spend more time with some kids then the parents do.

Plus, this is about taking away things with no discussion.

runner against walker!

My wife and I are both teachers. We both have a Master's degree. She has one more year of experience. She makes 10k more than I do and works about 80% of what I do.

Public school teachers are generally overpaid. My wife teaches special education, so she has a lot to do. But she makes the same amount as the PE teacher, art teacher or music teacher with the same education and experience. It's asinine.

look, the bottom line is that states cannot afford to pay public employees what they used to. So their total compensation will have to fall.

Unless -

state government would rather fund employees than things like medicare, state parks and other progressive causes. So - Democrats - which is it? Strong public labor unions or funding for pet liberal causes?

I take you teach at a private school vs you better half teaching at a public school.Is your school faith based? If so they are relying on a work force who values that faith to fill their teaching positions vs. requiring teachers to gain certifications and higher education and experience and in turn rewarding them.This situation turning you against your own spouse has the rightees laughing all the way to the bank!

Mtn Dew wrote:

My wife and I are both teachers. We both have a Master's degree. She has one more year of experience. She makes 10k more than I do and works about 80% of what I do.

Public school teachers are generally overpaid. My wife teaches special education, so she has a lot to do. But she makes the same amount as the PE teacher, art teacher or music teacher with the same education and experience. It's asinine.

Most the teachers if not all that I talk to are not saying that they want more pay or more benefits. They just want the right to negotiate.

Plus this is not all about teachers.. this is just union busting.

and part 2:

I have voted democratic 90% of my life, but on this one I line up with the republicans - public employees are paid too much and there are too many of them. Sorry.

ok, uncleb, come and say:

"once again letsrunners blame the poor and middle class rather than the rapacious corporations"

runnerunner wrote:

Most the teachers if not all that I talk to are not saying that they want more pay or more benefits. They just want the right to negotiate.

Plus this is not all about teachers.. this is just union busting.

This is correct. Every single one who posted except for this guy is wrong. And some are far more wrong than others.

I pray the feds shut the government down again. In fact, I think EVERY public employee, including the police, military, teachers, weather forecasters, should take two of their sick days in a row next week. It's only then will you pambyasses start to appreciate the good job public employees do. Until then go fvck yourselves.

You can't be serious. As a political gesture, Obama has frozen across the board increases in the GS system. However, government employees still receive guaranteed raises based on years of service within each GS level (steps) and nearly guaranteed promotions between levels. Someone that is a GS-9 today will most likely be a GS-11 by the time the "pay freeze" ends if they're even marginally competent.

Employees have no 'right' to collective bargaining if they sign it away or are not offered such terms by the employer. Ever hear of "at will employment". The State can unilateterally rescind it's end of the deal. In either case if the State has no money or it can fire employees. Even if the state has money and wants to dump employees it can. The only thing I see crooked with the Wisconsin governor is that he exempted his cronies at the police union. I suspect that the guy is on the take.

Illogical wrote:

On to the point: Collective Bargaining is unconstitutiona. It just hasn't been properly challenged. Part of the commerce clause. In laymans terms it means commerse cannot be blackmailed by an organized group. All the workers laws are unconstituional. A private employer has the right to hire and pay a worker as they choose. The government for years has superseded their authority upon others. This is America. Capitalism central. Deal with it.

Loon.

No one is saying you can't negotiate for yourself. Union thugs do not need to make money for themselves by trying to "save the people" As said before, employees have no rights. Take a new job if you like, but the employers, who pay all the bills, have the right to set the terms. Set bettr terms, get better eployees. It works.. RUNNERS FOR WALKER

Collective bargaining and unionization is about more than just pay, especially in the arena of teaching.

(My qualifications to talk about this: growing up with a mother as a teacher and a father as a professor - for all the flaws of colleges posing as teaching institutions when they are actually research institutions, he has the way sweeter deal.)

Having a union rep being able to represent you when shit hits the fan is extremely important. Kids lie about stuff that happens, parents trust their kids rather than the teacher, and all that stands my mother being wrongfully fired is tenure and a good union representative.

Admittedly, I went to a public school district that is one of the worst in Pennsylvania - it is routinely near the bottom in scores and very narrowly escaped being taken over by the state multiple times. And the superintendent there just is an awful human being. The parenting and level of education in this district...just ain't great.

I don't know where the figure about 'average federal workers' comes into play with respect to teacher pay. My first year in a private sector job (engineering) I made more than my mother does with 20 years of teaching experience (she's just now over $50k). Part of that does have to do with the fact that she took voluntary pay freezes / cuts for half of those 20 years. I imagine given that she makes 50k now, starting pay might be in the high 30's or low 40's, depending on what degrees you hold (she has an MFA).

She works an additional job at night / during the summer. My dad teaches summer classes. They do live comfortably and they were able to afford to send my sister and I to school by the virtue of a tuition exchange program.

Not an easy job, and bargaining is in place for a reason. People who claim that 'government workers need to share in the sacrifice' don't realize that they have been doing so all along. It is not their fault that the state government made promises it had no way, and no intention, of keeping.

States will be curtailing pensions, medical and dental insurance, 3 month vacations for teachers, overtime pay for cops/fire/corrections/etc. State and community college tuition will be going up, with less professors and fewer classes. States have to balance the budget, i.e. they can't borrow from China like the GOP does to feed the Pentagon and Israel.

Collective bargaining is a basic right because God ordained it.

Also, Hitler's first step was to eliminate unions, therefore unions are beneficial to society.

I think that's what OP is trying to say.

I'm probably missing something, but isn't collective bargaining just an extension of freedom of assembly?

State workers and their pensions have nothing to do with the budget situations states find themselves in. I would like to see evidence that that is the case from our conservative brothers and sisters but they will be unable to produce that evidence.

When salaries are adjusted for educational levels public sector employees make less than private sector employees, look it up if you do not agree.

Had Gov. Walker not given tax breaks to the wealthy the issue would be moot in Wisconsin. Walker expects public employees to give benefits they have bargained for over several years so that the wealthy can benefit at the expense of the middle class and poor.

No one offer any evidence that giving the wealthy tax breaks will help the economy but most of us could easily find data to back up the belief that a healthy middle class equates to fiscal prosperity.