Patriot League Indoor Champs

Or American? American is hard to really compare to the other teams since they don't really have a track team, but their XC team is consistently good. I don't know what their team looks like now, but in the past they've had people like Duffy and Carlstrom, so it's kind of hard to say that they don't get anyone good though.

The Bucknell women are consistently pretty good, at least within the Patriot League. Trying to take that away from them is just sour grapes. But pretty much everyone on that team understands that the Patriot League isn't super competitive when you compare it to any of the big DI conferences. They're not stupid, and they can compare times, you know. They're confident, as they should be. But let's not get that confidence confused with cockiness.

?? wrote:

I'll take a wild stab at it and guess you're talking about Colgate. Even though most of their team sucks, sheridan and Johnson were pretty damn good in high school.

Maybe their distance team isnt the greatest, but they finished 4th in XC. Their number 3 guy is a 4:11 miler who didn't played lacrosse instead of running track in hs.

I know kids on that team and, say what you want, but (like the rest of the league) the guys work hard and do the best with what they have.

Just Thinking wrote:

Why is Bucknell able to compete with the academies (Army and Navy) and other peer institutions like Lehigh and Lafayette can not compete? Do they have more resources/funding than other PL schools? Scholarships? What gives them the edge? I can understand why Army and Navy are so good, but I don't understand Bucknell.

I tend to think the acceptance standards are different, if not overall, then with regards to how much leeway some teams are given by their respective admissions offices. Recruiting a team of good athletes with limited offerings is hard enough as it is, but they still have to get admitted first. We know the admissions office will look kindly on the football and basketball teams, but I think a big factor is the degree and frequency to which they will do the same for the track team.

No ill will my man. The dude calling anyone not from Bucknell pussies is the one that blew the thread up.

The IC4A standards are much weaker than the ECAC standards. Just look at the number of qualifiers across the board within the east coast.

its funny that a bucknell fan would talk so much game on letsrun....lets be honest, this forum is populated almost exclusively by distance runners. so theres almost a 100% runner our little bison poster runs distance...if i recall correctly bucknell xc got their clocks cleaned by navy, au, army, lehigh, and oh yeah--colgate....dont get too cocky bud. your track team is good, but not because of you.

not sure why you replied to my post bisonh8er, but I couldn't agree with you more. I was replying to the Bucknell women's hater about the tougher ECAC standards compared to the men's IC4A.

wissy wrote:

I tend to think the acceptance standards are different,

Acceptance standards certainly vary throughout the league but that doesn't explain why Bucknell competes so well against Army and Navy and other schools don't. Bucknell is probably not the hardest patriot league school to get into, but it's definitely not the easiest either.

I imagine their success on the men's side is a factor of coaching, recruiting, and institutional support.

First, the team has some excellent assistant coaches. Specifically, the sprints and throws coaches do a great job. This really shows when you look at the HS resumes of some of their patriot league champions and scorers (although, some were also very good in high school too).

Second, Coach Donner makes a real effort to use what little weight he has in admissions to get athletes in all disciplines rather than just focusing on sprints or distance or what not. You can't win a track meet without athletes scoring in all, or almost all of the events (even though American seems to think it is possible).

Finally, it's certainly possible that the Athletic department and institution as a whole is more supportive of the track and field teams at bucknell than at other patriot league schools, but whether this additional support came is a result of the success of the team or vice versa is up for debate.

Full disclosure: I am a Bucknell Alum.

Not so! I agree that the women standards for ecac's are a little tougher in general but definitely not across the board. There are a few men's events that are definitely harder to get into.

If you adjust the qualifying standards to the hardest between the two (IC4A vs ECAC) then the mens side of the Patriot League still qualifies 84 athletes while the women only qualify 28. I used the IAAF performance tables for this adjustment. Proof in pudding!

The problem with this league is that for track, there are only 3 teams that matter. The league championships are essentially a tri-meet between army, navy, bucknell, with 4th place being waaaayyy behind. All other teams have resigned to the fact that they have no chance to win and thus are jealous and hostile towards the big 3

Croclarader wrote:

All other teams have resigned to the fact that they have no chance to win and thus are jealous and hostile towards the big 3

That simply is not true. I ran for one of those "other" teams in the not-so-distant past, and we were usually finished 6th,7th or 8th. The times that we finished 4th, we felt like we won the damn thing. We knew that because of our numbers and our lack of scholarships, we could NEVER win, but we were ok with that. We did our best and took pride in scoring where we could.

Cheetah Tiger Jaguar wrote:

That simply is not true. I ran for one of those "other" teams in the not-so-distant past, and we were usually finished 6th,7th or 8th. The times that we finished 4th, we felt like we won the damn thing. We knew that because of our numbers and our lack of scholarships, we could NEVER win, but we were ok with that. We did our best and took pride in scoring where we could.

If you don't have the numbers on your team that is one thing, but it is not the lack of scholarships that prevents you from winning. No one in the patriot league has scholarships.

oiuldfs wrote:

Cheetah Tiger Jaguar wrote:

That simply is not true. I ran for one of those "other" teams in the not-so-distant past, and we were usually finished 6th,7th or 8th. The times that we finished 4th, we felt like we won the damn thing. We knew that because of our numbers and our lack of scholarships, we could NEVER win, but we were ok with that. We did our best and took pride in scoring where we could.

If you don't have the numbers on your team that is one thing, but it is not the lack of scholarships that prevents you from winning. No one in the patriot league has scholarships.

Maybe, but I think a paid education (armed forces) or whatever Bucknell calls their "non-athletic aid" i think can be lumped into the same category. Oh and by the way, American gives their distance runners scholarships. Please get out of the past and into the present.

AU had either 2.75 or 3 scholarships on the men's side if Im not mistaken. Not exactly enough to build a powerhouse program. They also dont have hurdles, pits, or any other equipment really necessary to field a full squad-whether they want to or not is another story.

Centrowitz knows what he is doing. Track and field is not a sport that receives much funding from their institutions. Instead of trying to field a full mediocre track team he focuses his time, money, and energy on making a strong small group of distance runners. This allows him to be very successful in cross country and still compete indoors and outdoors.

I will agree that Centrowitz knows what he is doing, but I don't necessarily agree with what he does. The program seems to be on a downswing and its because a real effort in recruiting. There is no reason AU shouldn't win PL's in XC every year and dominate from th 800 on the track. Coach Centrowitz has seemed to get complacent in that regard. He is still a vey good coach and gets the most of the runners he does have.

He does what he wants. If his goal was to score the most points at Patriots, he would put ALL his money into sprinters and jumpers, where the conference is very weak. Instead, he strives to qualify athletes for postseason meets, and to get his team to XC nationals. Now, as for the reason that has not happened recently...it is hard to say. Maybe he needs to step up his recruiting. Heck, if he can't even convince his OWN son to go there, how can he convince anyone else. (Kidding, mostly)

With admissions standards playing an effect that's hard to qualify, Bucknell women win because of tradition, hard work, and a developmental coaching philosophy. We know we aren't untouchable and we aren't cocky, and we don't waste our time with poor sportsmanship. We respect teams that step up to try and sometimes succeed to beat us as it only makes us and the league better.

Obviously the Patriot League is not the Pacific Coast league...so what's your point exactly? Hater.