fayetteville manlius mileage?

Some of the trolls on this thread are mindboggling. I guess some idiot on here can find something wrong with any coach in the country.

I know Bill and am a friend of his in another state and, honest to God, I think he's one of the greatest coaches that ever lived - at least for coaching prep XC - and one of my favorite human beings. If I could work with him, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

i heard courtney chapman and other fm girls do 2 hour long runs. isnt courtney sick?

i feel like these kids arent going to improve after hs. sure bill aris knows how to get people fast and get every dribble that is inside of them and their full capacity and you know what that is fun for hs and if they dont want to have an athletic future well than that is probably a great idea because that way he squeezed all the juice out of them and his runners can leave the program being worn down. i dont know where im going with this except that i think people give him a lot of credit for building a great program but i dont think excellent runners come out of it just a burned out not wanted kid

i heard courtney chapman and other fm girls do 2 hour long runs. isnt courtney sick?

i feel like these kids arent going to improve after hs. sure bill aris knows how to get people fast and get every dribble that is inside of them and their full capacity and you know what that is fun for hs and if they dont want to have an athletic future well than that is probably a great idea because that way he squeezed all the juice out of them and his runners can leave the program being worn down. i dont know where im going with this except that i think people give him a lot of credit for building a great program but i dont think excellent runners come out of it just a burned out not wanted kid

No FM girl does 2 hour long runs. And where in JD's Running Formula does it define burnt out?

No FM girl does 2 hour long runs. And where in JD's Running Formula does it define burnt out?

Courtney, Saggy:

Capital letters are required at the beginning of most sentences.

I am sure this is taught at FM.

I doubt the identity of both posters.

'just when i thought i was out, they pulled me back in'

michael corleone, godfather 3

in reply to the 'courtney' impersonator

we do 5 hour runs at a time, we lift 10,000 lbs of wgts daily, we live on grubs, roots, road kill, tree bark, and spring water, our top 7 is determined by weekly football 'bull in the ring' drills, our motivational tools are bats, whips, chains, and killer dogs, we swim with piranha 2 x week to cross train and to develop toughness and fearlessness, we sleep outside throughout the winter wearing nothing more than singlets and shorts, none of our kids ever run in college or get major college scholarships for running and/or academics because they are all fried both mentally and physically as well as being completely 'squeezed of all juice', as a coach i only care about winning and nothing about the kids overall wellbeing or their futures, i deserve no credit as a responsible coach as they are merely talented kids who succeed in spite of the daily abuse they receive, and oh yeah, we must all be on ped's because how could we run like this otherwise. any more bs that i left out?

the real courtney chapman is an intelligent hard working and dedicated young lady, as well as a terrific leader of the utmost integrity and character. do not insult her good name by attaching it to your gossip. she is coming back from a bad virus she contracted in the first week of the season, which had nothing to do with running by the way, is making a careful and progressive return to her typical level of training, and is eager to return to her typical running form during championship season in the upcoming months. she is in the midst of her college search, as well as being recruited by some noteworthy power academic and running programs, where she hopes to pursue both running and study toward a possible medical career. she is like another family member to me and has been since she came to us way back in 8th grade in 2006. for you to insinuate that i would treat her or any other team member in the manner you describe is both false and outrageous, as both courtney and any committed team member past or present would agree.

someone above said that i am very protective of our kids and our program as a whole, and that person is correct. i can't possibly be protective if i don't care about anything but winning at the expense of the kids welfare. so, believe what you want and write whatever bs you wish. i have to go now, i am meeting with a supplier of torture devices which i may employ in our kids future 'development', as well as help extract every 'dribble' from their young bodies.

i forgot to kick my dog and yell at my wife too, you have distracted me from my morning routine. GOOD MORNING!

'just when i thought i was out, they pulled me back in'

michael corleone, godfather 3

in reply to the 'courtney' impersonator

we do 5 hour runs at a time, we lift 10,000 lbs of wgts daily, we live on grubs, roots, road kill, tree bark, and spring water, our top 7 is determined by weekly football 'bull in the ring' drills, our motivational tools are bats, whips, chains, and killer dogs, we swim with piranha 2 x week to cross train and to develop toughness and fearlessness, we sleep outside throughout the winter wearing nothing more than singlets and shorts, none of our kids ever run in college or get major college scholarships for running and/or academics because they are all fried both mentally and physically as well as being completely 'squeezed of all juice', as a coach i only care about winning and nothing about the kids overall wellbeing or their futures, i deserve no credit as a responsible coach as they are merely talented kids who succeed in spite of the daily abuse they receive, and oh yeah, we must all be on ped's because how could we run like this otherwise. any more bs that i left out?

the real courtney chapman is an intelligent hard working and dedicated young lady, as well as a terrific leader of the utmost integrity and character. do not insult her good name by attaching it to your gossip. she is coming back from a bad virus she contracted in the first week of the season, which had nothing to do with running by the way, is making a careful and progressive return to her typical level of training, and is eager to return to her typical running form during championship season in the upcoming months. she is in the midst of her college search, as well as being recruited by some noteworthy power academic and running programs, where she hopes to pursue both running and study toward a possible medical career. she is like another family member to me and has been since she came to us way back in 8th grade in 2006. for you to insinuate that i would treat her or any other team member in the manner you describe is both false and outrageous, as both courtney and any committed team member past or present would agree.

someone above said that i am very protective of our kids and our program as a whole, and that person is correct. i can't possibly be protective if i don't care about anything but winning at the expense of the kids welfare. so, believe what you want and write whatever bs you wish. i have to go now, i am meeting with a supplier of torture devices which i may employ in our kids future 'development', as well as help extract every 'dribble' from their young bodies.

i forgot to kick my dog and yell at my wife too, you have distracted me from my morning routine. GOOD MORNING!

I watched the thread disdainfully. I don't know Bill Aris, not have I ever seen his team run. My son runs for a very successful program, but not nearly on the level of F-M. What I have observed is that the keys to good HS program is building the right culture and everyone being ready to perform on the same day. Neither of these things can happen if your athletes are not happy and having fun. F-M's success over such a long period of time, by definition must mean the athletes are happy and having fun. Saggy One--Keep up the good work.

As always, threads on our programs generate rancid and groundless commentary.

Facts (not speculation):

Runners leave the FM high-school program with a wealth of knowledge and understanding about proper training methods and practice. They know how to approach training for the rest of their lives, regardless of whether they wish to pursue excellence in distance running beyond high-school.

They also leave having been conditioned to high-level/high-stress competitive situations which prepare them well for the collegiate running scene (should they even desire that path). A four time high-school national champion (having competed against the best in the country in a race very similar to the NCAA championship, scaled down) is well prepared to face the masses of talented runners in every race they run at the next level. This does not mean that they will immediately (or ever) jump to the front in DI NCAA competition.

What some seem not to understand (or are just flat out omitting) is that transitioning to a life beyond high-school is extremely challenging (competitive distance running is only a part of this transition)...very few 'high caliber high school athletes' continue their stardom at the collegiate level. MOST runners in NCAA DI programs are extremely talented, whereas in high-school it is easy to differentiate between the top level and the rest of the pack. Some very good runners never see the top 20 of any race they ever run in college. Doesn't mean they have been 'burned out'...just means that the competition is outstanding and all encompassing, and as they enter this world they must choose whether to keep climbing to the top. We have always aimed to motivate...it is our top priority...with both the youth, and now with Stotan Racing. As such, you may see some high-school runners who achieve far more than ever thought possible (in high-school)...sometimes it is a lack of motivation at the next level that yields seemingly mediocre results. Sometimes it is a person's physical limitations that prevent them from being at the top beyond high-school. Does this mean that coaches should NOT motivate their athletes in high-school, so as to better prepare the kids for a lack of motivation in college?? Or maybe train them so soft that they never see success at any level (high-school or beyond)? Bullshit.

The proof is in our end result...and that does not change. Judge the end result, folks, not a process you know nothing about. We believe in our coaching philosophies and methods, and we have full confidence that it works. The end result is not only in our competitive success, but in the lifelong success of the people who choose to train with us. Our runners are happy, smiling often, eager to learn, and give all they have to give. There is a closeness in our group that one cannot explain.

Some people will be spiteful, others will support (thank you to those who do)...As for the spiteful, you have zero negative impact on our process. Truthfully it is your comments that help us to perfect the process more so every day.

Its all fuel. We'll gladly consume it.

John Aris

I am surprised that saggy one was actually an Aris. (Shoddy writing for an educator)

I am further surprised you all added fuel to the fire in the gossip circle.

If you stand on your porch yelling at the group of teenagers in the road it will not make them go away, it inspires them. (see chapter 1, from text-Kids 101)

This is a gossip site, kids will speculate and insinuate, nothing you can say or do will change that.

I sense a bit of pomposity in your retorts, maybe it is just anger. I’ll grant a pass on that one.

Advice: Don't come down from on high to involve yourself in the gossip, act surprised when it ramps up after your involvement, and then lecture us about how you are fueled by the negative.

Humbly run your program and educate kids. You seem to do very well when you stick to those two items.

And,

My skill set notwithstanding, teach saggy one some writing skills; he is an educator after all.

Were you the guy who was talking to zack stewart at proctor park 2 weeks ago?

not kilgore wrote:

And,

My skill set notwithstanding, teach saggy one some writing skills; he is an educator after all.

If I ever write an article about letsrun, it will definitely be called "Glass Houses."

It will also entail everything I've learned from the passive aggressive, fragile egos that post here.

How to take down people with accomplishments you will never, in your wildest dreams, achieve.

1) Say they injure their kids and don't develop them long term. You, on the other hand, deliberately submarine your kids high school development so they'll be healthier and happier and turn into Olympians.

A) When it is pointed out that your kids are more injured than most programs, you have less of a long term record than the programs you criticize, and your kids don't really like you, blame everyone but yourself and call the person who pointed this out arrogant, pompous or some other term that deflects your hypocrisy. (I would probably have to pay formercmasscoach for the rights to this one)

2) Make up statistics or facts to back up your drivel.

A) When your facts are proven false, see 1A.

3) Post with several different handles and agree with yourself to make it look like you have support.

A) Obviously, never post under your own name. (formercmass coach is paying for this mistake right now)

4) Remember that people would rather bring others down than look up to those above them so know you can always abandon one thread and go insult someone better than you on another one.

However, if you actually want to learn from the great coaches, you will have to slog through pages of garbage to read a handful of lines from them until they give up and never come back.

I reccommend switching to tracktalk.net to be honest.

for the most part, everyone is who they say they are, the forum is much more organized, and we don't have people changing their name every 5 seconds at a whim.

Mr. Aris(s) - I had respect for you as a coach based on your record of success, since I don't know you, or your daily coaching activities, I shouldn't judge you on them. Reading your posts, I applaude you even more.

Thankfully people like you, who do have the resume to back the talk, do have input on this website. Unfortunately you have to mine through the petty, immature jealousy to get to it.

Guess what people, if those girls weren't having fun, they wouldn't be doing it. If you can make a girl train and compete at the level the FM girls do, and the girl doesn't want to and is not enjoying it, please give me a call and you can help with my team.

Well said, not kilgore...we've now been put rightly in our places!

Humility: a concept SO foreign to FM coaches and athletes... ;)

How could these key points have been missed by coaches of high-school kids?

Many thanks for the pass granted; we will in fact return to educating and guiding, and use the fuel that you (and others) have all provided.

Thank you to Bill and John Aris for posting here. I have learned a little bit about your program. Generally I do not follow high school so only knoew a little bit coming in. I have also learned that both of you are classy, upstanding individuals and I wish you all the success in the world. I also hope you ignore the bitter ignorant people who post here.

to: not kilgore

fr: bill aris

i no longer work in the school but i educate every day i coach.

speaking of pomposity, re-read and sense the tone of your own writings.

i came on here to the support of our kids and program, and nothing more.

absolutely no egoism here, nor anger, just facts. how about you?

re my style of writing (or lack of it by your account): i assure you that when the purpose is more significant than a message board, my writing skills would measure up with your lofty standards. no need to display literary/written proficiency here.

re no caps (on purpose): quicker to write and get on with it. ever heard of ee cummings?

you are right, a gossip board for sure, which is why i stay away most of the time. but, when it pertains to the fm program or more importantly kids in that program, i become interested for sure and respond when neccessary.

i can assure you that i am no higher than any one else on this planet, therefore no need to come down from lofty perches when i am already on ground level.

finally, enjoy your courageous anonymity. must be great to be a legend in your own mind. now, how many words should i have capitalized, how far off is my punctuation and grammar from your ideal model of appropriate message board writing etiquette?

enjoy your mirror.

john:

thanks for the contributions and support. even though you are not coaching with me in the hs program this fall, concentrating on day work and our stotan racing project, you will always be with us. the kids appreciated your cheering during the last dual meet and mentioned it to me afterward.

your 'saggy' father