Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 9/5

Well, today went (predictably based on how I've been feeling recently?) terrible, hoped to run 5:30s and be able to pick it up a little at the end.... no such luck! 5-6 miles in I was toast. Legs tired, feet going to sleep, I would have jogged back to the start line had I known how to get there and I not been in New Haven. I finished, but the second half was worthless.

I'm going to try to get some bloodwork done this week to make sure I don't have any problems, even though I'm now taking iron and a multivitamin I'd like to have some assurance that it's not iron or something worse.

Other than that, I'm going to bike tomorrow and maybe beyond that depending on how I feel... take it easy for a couple of days and hopefully things will come around.

tycobb - nice half mate. Looking good.

CTA - as others have said, just put the Sunday run behind you. Strongly suggest that you do not try and play catch-up. If anything, take a couple of easy days or a day off to try and get your shins to settle down. You've done all the work at this point. Listen to AJ, PJ and Pablo! Plan for this week is to cut back the mileage a little more (low to mid-80s) and final hard workouts on Weds & Sun. After having trouble with the mile reps last week, tempted to do the 3 x 3M again on Weds and a MP run on Sunday.

Pablo - thanks for the encouraging words. Of the Canova long runs I've done so far, the 15M @ 85% with 5M @ 100% MP was the hardest so far. How did you find it? Great week BTW.

Dr Spaceman - great 20k. Congrats

Farmette - very well raced. Nice time!

3TM - excellent time and very encouraging that you had so much left at the end of the 20k. Looking good.

Farm - really sorry to hear that. Hopefully a few easy days (or perhaps a couple of days off) will see you right.

Tons of amazing training. Impressive stuff everyone.

Thank marmite. The best part was that the guys I coach ran solid too. 64:54, 65:03 and 65:10. All big 1/2 equivalent prs. None have ever broken 1:10... Maybe even not 1:11, and today was equivalent to under 69 for sure. I think they were among the first 3 working stiffs at 18, 19, 20th places. Another one of my guys ran about 69 min and had a bad day, so all in, it was a solid showing.

Knock on wood, my team will have 4 guys b/w 2:24 and 2:27 and another couple at around 2:30. Then slow poke me hopefully mid to high 2;30s.

Thanks Marmite. Great long run this week. I actually had a similar experience to your Wed. workout last week -- cutting short a mile w/o after 3 reps. It's certainly nothing to worry about if you can bounce back like that.

3TM -- great race, and congrats on how your guys ran. I'm glad I didn't even try to keep up with them.

FARM -- sorry to hear things didn't go well today. Hopefully a few days rest will turn things around.

FARMETTE -- that's a great time, especially if you haven't raced since Jan.

Goal Race: Rocket City, 2:35

Monday: Easy 3.5 and 5.5 mile runs

Tuesday: 8 miles with 5 mile tempo run (no watch); easy 6 miles

Wednesday: Easy 4 and 8 mile runs

Thursday: 9.5 miles with 45:00 progression run (15:00 at 6:16,5:59,5:38). I was happy with this workout because I was shooting for 6:20,6:00,5;40 and the workout felt really easy; easy 2 miles at a cross country meet

Friday: Easy 6 and 6.5 mile runs

Saturday: Easy 6 and 4.5 mile runs

Sunday: Easy 6 miles

Week Total: 75.5 miles; Miles were a little low this week but since I don't race very much, I wanted to have a little left in the tank. My running has been ok, but for some reason, I've been extremely sleepy and have been going to bed 1-2 hours earlier than normal the last few nights.

Race today: 10k in 32:12. I was really happy with this race because I thought I'd run a low 33. The weather was perfect but the course had a lot of hills in the middle of the race. I hit the first mile in 5:20, which was a few seconds too slow, so I picked it up too much and split 5:06, slowed back down to 5:25, then stayed steady at 5:10, 5:10, 6:01(1.2). I felt really strong and felt like I had a lot left in the tank. I decided to change my goal to 2:35 now and may drop it more after my half marathon next month.

Your first 20 miler on 70mpw and you ran 1:56? That is a 20 mile RACE. What kind of mileage have you been doing? Workouts?

Thanks to all those with the words of encouragement. Much much appreciated. I took Monday off and feel a bit better today. Hopefully i will get in one or two quality workouts this week. As pablo warned, i don't want to f*ck up all my training (like i did before rotterdam).

Another - that was a solid TT. I could not have done that solo.

Congrats to those who raced well.

3TM -- that must feel REALLY good.

farmette -- great job. I'll be surprised if you don't post better than 2:52ish.

Dr Specimen (haha) -- wow.

1st Time thoner - Either your goal time is way too slow or you're running too fast on your daily runs. I agree w/ *stipe...for someone in the 2:30-2:40 range, that would be damn near a race effort. If it truly didn't feel that difficult, I wouldn't put 2:25-2:30 past you. That said, I'm also running Twin Cities and shooting for sub-2:30...if you're willing to give 5:40-5:43 pace a shot on race day, feel free to shoot me an email and we may be able to work together.

dpatrick and CT - Excellent weeks, nice to see some potential OTQ guys on here.

music is happiness - That's an awesome long run you had, basically 16 miles at sub-5:40 pace....EXCELLENT! That should give you a boost of confidence for sub-2:30.

Steven - Another huge week for you!

3TM - Congrats on a great race! Even though you had some of the usual hip/hammy issues, it didn't seem to set you back at all. I've noticed the good workouts/races you've had recently seem to be the longer, MP type workouts...not the short stuff. That should be a sign that you're endurance is finally catching up to the work you've put in over the last year or so. I think you can definitely hit 2:37 in Chicago, but you can't shoot yourself in the foot by taking it out too fast.

Dr. Spaceman - Nice race, only a few weeks left!

FARM - Tough break at New Haven. You've put in some good work this summer, I find it hard to believe that something like an iron deficiency would show up this quick. Perhaps it was just a bad day...we all have them one time or another. Hopefully a few down days (off or easy) will re-juvenate you. Keep us posted!

FARMette - Excellent race! Without knowing much about your marathon history...but based on your training, and this recent race...I'd say 6:40's are very doable in a few weeks!

blaznbison - Are you kidding me?!? Awesome 10k man! You've still got a while until you can set a goal time for the marathon, but given this performance...I'd say you're closer to 2:30-2:32. But you're right, the half marathon you'll do in a month will be a better indicator. With this 10k, you could probably hit a 1:11 low in the half.

and marmite - I should add that my 21 miler w/ the last 5 @ MP was probably a little slow on both ends of the true "Canova" workout. For the first 16 miles, I was probably closer to 80% of MP, and the last 5 miles were probably 98-99% of MP. I don't know for sure, because I was only able to get sporadic splits during the long run. But I will say that it felt much easier than I expected.

Thanks guys. CTA, I agree with what everyone else on here said. I really believe that the idea of "making up" mileage is a bit silly. At this point in your training, its all about feeling your way through the last few weeks. What I mean is that what is most important is not over doing it, staying mentally in the game, and leaving any workout or run thinking you could do more. Don't force anything.

Pablo, yeah, I definitely misjudged my effort a little, too. I think I could have run quite a bit faster, but I didn't realize I would have so much left. I ran the last 1/2 mile or so at 5:20-5:25 pace, and it was just a good sustained drive to the finish, not a wild kick. I think if it was a half marathon, and someone had told me at mile 12 that I could run sub 1:15:00 if I closed well, there is little doubt in my mind I could have closed at 5:30 pace for the last 1.1... which would have put me at 1:14:30-1:14:40. I hope I can keep my head in the game for another year...l would like to run this course again with another 365 days of fitness built in. But we'll see. First Chicago, then 2 weeks off, then Club Cross Nationals, and then we'll see where my running goes from there.

Hey Guys, late post. Got in late last night and slept in today. Don't have time to read everyone's training right now, but will later today. Although I did see tycobb's HM. Impressive, beat me!

Race: Chicago (10/10/10)

Goal: 2:36

Mo - 9.5 in 70mins

Tu - 9.5 in 70mins

We - (14) 5 by 1000m with 200m float recovery. 3 by 200m w/ 200m jog. 4pm

(3:26, 3:24, 3:19, 3:19, 3:19). felt good.

Th - 8am super easy

Fr - 5 easy

Sat - 6 easy

Sun - 15 Virginia Beach Half Marathon. 1:15:53.

Total Mileage - 67 miles

Pretty disappointed with the HM. Great weather at the start. Was on pace through 10miles (57:30) and my last 5k was just awful. The last 5k is wideopen and near the beach. So it was hot and windy. Tried to pick it up, but my legs just wouldn't GO! pretty frustrating. I didn't even feel tired after I finished. Not sure what to make of it. Maybe you guys have some thoughts. Keeping 2:36 as the goal, but that HM is more indicative of 2:39. Ughhh. 5 more weeks of training. Stay positive right?

Race: Chicago

Goal: 2:22

M - 13.5 miles @ 6:25 pace

T - 12.5 miles @ 6:30 pace

W - 17.5 miles w/ 10 miles tempo (5:39, 5:30, 5:34, 5:23, 5:38, 5:35, 5:18, 5:16, 5:10, 5:11 - 54:17 total)

R - 10.5 miles easy

F - 11.5 miles @ 6:25 pace

Sa - 15 miles easy

Su - 8 miles easy

Total: 88 miles

Had a nice week. I mentioned last week that my confidence was a little low due to the missed training time and missed workouts as a result of my calf strain. So this week, I wanted to test myself out a bit with a longer tempo to see what sort of shape I'm in. I felt good on my early week runs and let the pace creep up a bit on those. Then on Wednesday, I did a 10 mile tempo by myself. It went very well. I felt really strong and controlled. I ran a nice negative split for the run. It definitely felt good to run fast again after two weeks of no workouts and lower mileage. Overall this past week was a big step in the right direction. I definitely feel like I'm back on the wagon again.

Even though this should go on next week's thread, I actually raced a 15k yesterday. When I woke up yesterday, I had a sore throat, and I got kind of upset as it seems like it's just one thing after another. But I just kind of shrugged it off and gave it hell. The race actually went pretty well. It is a hilly course, and it was quite windy yesterday, but I was able to manage a 49:18, winning by about 2:00 (I ran 48:45 on this course last year, but I had competition and no wind). I was alone from the first step and never saw another person for the whole race. I don't have my splits with me right now, so I'll put those in next week's update. But I ran somewhat negative for the race, though once I knew I had the win comfortably in the bag, I did kind of just cruise it in. Now hopefully I'll be able to shake this cold quickly as I feel like I am rounding into shape nicely.

Nole, I think you should do what I'm planning on doing. Run 6:00 flat from the gun, and not a second faster. I don't think running 6:00s is going to blow you up.

I have a secret fantasy that I'm going to run dead even 6:00s from 1-15, go through in 1:30:00 and find that I feel amazing. At that point, I pick it up to 5:55s from 15-22 and find that I never hit the wall. From 22-26.2, its whatever I have and I somehow average 5:50's for that last 4 miles and run 2:35:59.

I figure if I'm in shape to run 2:35:59, I should be able to do the negative split. If I'm not, 6 flat is even splits on my way to my original goal of 2:37-2:38. If that was aggressive (the 2:37-2:38) then I have a bit of a cushion to positive split but still come home under 2:40:00.

My fear is that I get to 15 feeling great, inch the pace up to 5:55s, still feel good at 20 or 22, and then bam, the wall. Though I suppose if that was going to happen with 5-7 miles at 5 seconds a mile faster, it probably would have happened at 6 flats anyway.

Thoughts or suggestions?

Richmond Nov 13

Another late posting...hopefully I am back on track. Ran easy 3 Sat and then 8 miles Sunday. Very little heel soreness so hitting the track this week and hoping for no post-run pain in foot. Still on the ibuprofen and ice.

Mon elliptical 60min

Tues lift 60min

Weds bike 90mins

Thur bike 60 mins

Fri lift 45/ellipt 1 hr

Sat bike 2:30hrs/run 3 miles

Sun run eight miles

Plan four running days next two weeks and try to get in at least 30 miles then bump to five days and get the mileage to mid 40s by early October. This uncertainty sucks but what can you do.....

3TM - After my HM, that sounds like what I should do for sure. I really really don't want to blow up and run above 2:40. I would be really disappointed. If I run 2:39 ill be ok with it and if I run the 2:35:59 I would hit my original goal and be very very satisfied. If this is still what we want to do 5 weeks from now, we should plan to meet up and run it together.

Sounds like you had a great 20k! Now that I look at my splits. I was about 1:11:30 at 20k. and if it was only 20k I would have probably ran close to your time... I really effed up my last 5k.

All my friends (2:30 guys) tell me that I can still run a 2:35 at Chi Town. One ran 1:16:high 4 weeks out from Chicago, where he ran 2:36. So, I'm keeping my head up.

Well, a taper will do wonders. I am really curious how this will go. Like I said, if you/we are really fit enough to nail 2:36:00, then you/we should be able to come back from a 1:30:00 first 15 and nail it. If we were never really that fit to begin with, it still sets us up for 2:37-2:38. If for some reason its just not a good race, then sub 2:40 should still be in the cards.

I know a few others who are looking to run 6:00 pace as well... so there will certainly be a crew for a while. I put up the e-mail so we can be in touch.

For me, the next 2.5 weeks are going to be easy mileage and a few workouts where I really work on MP and fuel management. I think that combined with a good taper and a day off in the 2 weeks leading up, will have me ready to at least make an honest go of it.

Now we have to hope for decent weather!

i'm late to the thread but after spending the summer cycling and doing some running, i've decided to run a fall marathon.

Race: Marshall Marathon (Nov 7)

Goal: 3:15

tapered for a duathlon on 9/5. 2M run @ 6:30, 19M bike @ 19.3, 4M run @ 7:12.

i plan on mostly ramping up the miles and doing very little speedwork. we'll see how it goes.

The toughest part about Chicago in the two years I ran it (and, friends told me, the two years I had to watch it because I was injured) is the headwind from roughly 23 to the finish. Just as you are REALLY getting tired, you run into the only consistent wind on the course and it's a headwind and it's relentless. Sometimes it's not that bad but it's noticeable.

That's where you make or break your time. Be prepared for it.

NoleRunner - FWIW, last year 2 weeks out from Chicago, I ran a 15k in 52:04...equating somewhat to a ~2:38 marathon. Overall, just a bad 15k for me...even though I won, I was very disappointed with the time. I ended up running Chicago in 2:34:51, which was much faster than the 15k would have "predicted". I wouldn't completely forget about this half marathon, but take it with a grain of salt...bad races just happen. You've put in the miles, put in the workouts...just hold steady for a few more weeks and pray for good weather in Chicago!

3TM - I think your plan sounds very good...6:00 pace should feel comfortable for a while, but it is an ideal situation. And at least in the marathons I've done, the ideal just doesn't happen. I think no matter if you're doing 5:50 pace or 6:20 pace through 20 miles, things just get different. And it's unlikely, even if you are in shape to run 2:35:59, that you'll negative split to do it...but it's not impossible. I think you'll have an idea on what kind of day you're having about 5 miles into the race.

pablo - Thanks for your encouragement. Did you do the Miracle Miles 15k in your hometown, Orlando? My training partner and I are giving that strong consideration right now. What are your thoughts about that race? Being so close to Chicago, do you think it affected your marathon positively/negatively? Are you doing it this year?

I should be in better racing-shape by then, so I'd really like to see what I can do... Came thru 15k in 53:20 on Sunday. So sub 52 should be doable.