FM vs. Saugus vs. Saratoga

its definitely gonna be FM. even though they dont have the best track times, they ALWAYS find a way in december to have an amazing team race at NXN and thats when it matters

First, here's the video you are talking about, it's possible this new 2010 schedule could make a difference, seeing Saugus runs so damn fast so early:

http://video.dyestat.com/admin/Clip.aspx?key=9D53DB98B7210F7E

Second, FM ran some pretty good times on the oval. They had one of the best 800m relay teams in US history...

Depth is going to come into play this season. That means Saratoga rules! FM has nobody to compensate for illness or injury.

If it comes down to depth, Saugus tops all...

Saratoga is way deeper than Saugus!!! I'm pretty sure Saugus isn't even the deepest team in Cali???

Saratoga has an elite girl thru like 12. Saugus is only really elite thru like 3.

Write it down now, Toga in 10! Watch out for their boys 2!

Saratoga wrote:

Saratoga is way deeper than Saugus!!!

Saratoga has an elite girl thru like 12. Saugus is only really elite thru like 3.

Saratoga elite through 12? Saugus elite only through 3? Really? Are you basing this on track times?

Saugus PBs are something like this for 800/1600/3200:

10:25 / 10:31 / 10:41 / 11:04 / 11:06 / 11:10 / 5:06 / 2:16

That's the first eight. Then there's:

10:42 (3000) / 55.x (400) / 57.x (400)

Here's Saugus at McQuaid last year, with all seven returning: 147 / 144 / 142 / 124 / 123 / 122 / 118.

Seasonal bests for the returning girls put three over 140, two at 130 and 128, two more in the 120s and two more at 117-118.

Nothing wrong with placing FM and Saratoga ahead of Saugus in rankings; that's where they belong. No reason to make things up though.

Saratoga wrote:

Saratoga is way deeper than Saugus!!! I'm pretty sure Saugus isn't even the deepest team in Cali???

Saratoga has an elite girl thru like 12. Saugus is only really elite thru like 3.

Write it down now, Toga in 10! Watch out for their boys 2!

I realize you're probably just trying to be a troll (and are probably more likely to be affiliated with the FM or Saugus program than Saratoga) BUT:

If I'm thinking of "elite" in the context of hs girls I'm thinking of someone who has at least gone 10:25 or faster for 3K. (If you're from FM and into speedratings then let's say 130). Here is Saratoga's likely top 12:

-Keelin Hollowood 9:55 3K

-Margaret MacDonald 4:34 1500

-Molly Pezzulo 10:06 3K

-Sydney King 10:06 3K

-Amanda Borroughs 5:01 mile

-Katie Treichel 10:20 3K

-Taylor Driscoll 10:21 3K

-Madison Carr XC speed ratings in the 130s

-Bri Freestone 11:22 3K

-Meredith Hungerford 10:43 3K

-Estella Smith 10:58 3K

-Sarah Morin 11:07 3K

So Saratoga is perhaps "elite" through 8.

Saugus looks similar (although if you only use performances from the 2009-2010 season they look less impressive-I don't know enough about the Saugus team to know if this was a fluke or will be indicative of an anticipated decline in performance by their "best top 3 in the nation")

A troll? Because I offer information and dispute a statement that is obviously over the top? Sorry to have caused you to back off to a more reasonable comparison.

Yes, the Saugus top 3 didn't run as well in 2010 as during 2009 track. Mahoney took the season off; Bulder had health issues; and Frankian seems to run better with teammates pulling her along. Even given her problems, Bulder ran 4:58 and 10:50; and Frankian ran 10:50.

According to Meylan's chart 10:25 is the equivalent of a 11:11 3200, so Saugus had three more girls under that standard in 2010; and Hernando ran 130 during 2009 cross country. That makes seven versus Saratoga's eight. And that doesn't count Penick's 121 from xc; Hampton's 118 and 2:16; and incoming frosh Frankian's 10:42 (3000). Plus there's another girl who ran an 11:48 3200, which is the equivalent of that 10:58 3000 and at least one other girl close to that 11:07 3000. And who knows what 55.x 400 girl Vincej will run in cross country. She improved about 3-4 seconds in the 400; she may also improve in cross country (she ran JV last year).

Pretty evenly matched teams, it seems to me.

I'm pretty sure Saugus' top eight wins in which team has the most depth:

Kaylin Mahoney

Karis Frankian

Stephanie Bulder

Merissa Kado

Emily McCarty

Alex Hampton

Jenay Jauregui

Danielle Hernando

Then they have:

Nicole Penick

Jenna Vinjec

little Frankian

Amy Haukka (ran 19:10 @ Mt. SAC in 2008 when Saugus swept the top 5 places at JV Nationals, but hasn't looked good since.)

Katie Huntington (ran 19:27 @ Mt. SAC and 5:30s as a frosh last year)

Take into account that the saugus girls are regressing and need to take seasons off due to over-training and you don't really know what you will get this fall or how long it will last??/

I'd go with Toga, great HS coaches.

CoachB wrote:

Saugus has something else that none of the NY teams have. Week after Week of high level competition leading up to the state meet, finishing only 1 week prior to NXN.

The NY teams get to rest and regroup prior to the national meet.

is this a joke?

manhattan eastern states is probably the best field in the country besides NXN

then saratoga, burnt hills, and shen are all in the same league... all have been top 10-15 teams in recent years

then the next week saratoga has to beat shen in order to make it to states; only one of queensbury/burnt hills makes it to states as well

then they race states (saratoga vs fm)

then they race feds... everyone who shows up

then they race nxn regionals

then nxn the next week

Perhaps you missed it but I was responding to the person I quoted at the beginning of my post. If you read my post again with good comprehension you will see we're pretty much saying the same thing.

The Saugus girls disappointing outdoor season does make me wonder a little about where they will be this fall but honestly I could see it going either way. They certainly could have their best team yet. I do think that last years team was better than they showed at NXN but off races happen and that is reality.

Saugus SHOULD win! Saratoga MAY win! FM WILL win! Case closed...

Ummm...ok wrote:

Perhaps you missed it but I was responding to the person I quoted at the beginning of my post. If you read my post again with good comprehension you will see we're pretty much saying the same thing.

The Saugus girls disappointing outdoor season does make me wonder a little about where they will be this fall but honestly I could see it going either way. They certainly could have their best team yet. I do think that last years team was better than they showed at NXN but off races happen and that is reality.

Sorry, obviously I was seeing a double quote which wasn't there.

Not sure how to account for Saugus' off-season in track. Mahoney's decision after the first meet to take the season off to concentrate on academics; Bulder's health being an issue; Murakami's signing with UCLA? They certainly weren't as focused as in 2009 and didn't perform as well up front.

2009 cross country was affected by the trip to McQuaid and not racing against FM there. That was disappointing, I think, and the decision to run at NXN was apparently made on the Sunday after State, so they weren't focused on that race.

Excuse me, but what was wrong with Murakami signing with UCLA? After all, her older sister, Shannon, had a great junior year for the Bruins. all western first team, all conference second team, 16:28 for 5,000 meters...

Wrong!

THE NY teams do not get to rest prior to the national meet, they have their regional meet the week prior to NXN, just as the california teams have their state meet.

Saugus is a great team no dounbt, but it's funny the excuses the california teams make year in and year out as they just get crushed by the superior NY teams at NXN.

This year should be very interesting, 3 teams that are cleary above the rest of the field. Who will win? i am not positive but this should be a crazy national meet.

are you kidding me??

So the trip to Mcquaid affected Saugus so much that it coast them at NXN??

And they were not focused on NXN? Stop the excuses, they got beat plain and simple. They may return their best squad this year and have a great shot at winning this season, but they lost the last 3 years becuase they faced a superior team and got beat, not only got beat but got beaten handily.

Maybe they are going the same way as FM and not focusing so much on track (like they did last time).

SUPERSPEED wrote:

are you kidding me??

So the trip to Mcquaid affected Saugus so much that it coast them at NXN??

And they were not focused on NXN? Stop the excuses, they got beat plain and simple. They may return their best squad this year and have a great shot at winning this season, but they lost the last 3 years becuase they faced a superior team and got beat, not only got beat but got beaten handily.

You're not getting it. Saugus spent the whole summer fund-raising, planning and talking about this trip to NY, specifically to race FM. Probably placed way too much emphasis on the race, especially so early in the season. I think there was a significant let-down when they learned that FM wasn't going to be there - and it seemed to affect them the rest of the season. Even though slightly short-handed (Murakami didn't run), McQuaid might have been their best team race of the season. Saugus ran well in California but not nearly as well as in 2008, even though on paper the 2009 team should have been better. They were slower at Mt Sac, at SS Finals and at State.

No question that NY teams have dominated at every NTN/NXN race. The FM run over the past four years has been remarkable.