2010 MAC XC?

i'm not so sure about the hatred for the MAC, here. i understand that the conference isn't very good, but aren't we forgetting that in the early part of the last decade HALF those Athletic Departments cut their men's track programs - what kind of quality recruit is going to go a school, and run for only a cross country program? Kids that don't mind spending a lot of time partying, i assume.

so... let's switch up the conversation and talk about what's going to take place in the MAC on the women's side, hmm?

oh, and DIII kids on here talking sh*t - grow up. seriously.

Miami's women should and will dominate. There are no other programs dreaming of making Nationals!

Whatever happened to:

Scott Hilditch (KSU): HS- 4:07, NXN Qualifier

I think Central Mich will surprise some on the womens side. I'm not sure why the men's team is so poor, given the same coach, but I think the women will do well. Lohner looked good moving up in distance late in the track season (10k champ), and there are a number of strong-ish returners if they stay healthy. Not a flashy team, but could be decent.

And to the person above me...I don't think "D3-er" was really "talking shit," but making the point in a way the person harping about the big 10 couldn't understand. The one poster was saying that "of course the big 10 has better runners, they have better recruits" and then the d3 guy was just saying that the point wasn't them being better or worse than another conference, but that the runners on the men's side, at least, in the MAC have not improved very impressively off their high school performances. That transcends conference. If the majority your recruits aren't improving you are doing something wrong. I think the d3 point was just made to show that a bunch of programs without any athletic scholarships manage to do a better job than these MAC schools with partial funding. Sure, their funding can't compete w/ the big 10, but they have better sports funding than ANY d3 school, and should appropriately be better than these smaller teams.

Personally, i've always felt that ANY program with any scholarships ought to be better than programs with no money (except perhaps Ivy schools, which get recruits based on academic prestige). If a school that can offer athletes scholarships can't be better than d3 type schools, which are--lets be honest--just a bunch of guys running for fun, then they are poorly coached, poorly recruited, etc. No other excuse.

Honestly, though, I think the problem with the MAC is that none of the schools are particularly good/prestigious academic institutions. Lots of runners are smart kids...if they aren't fast enough to go to Oregon, they're gonna want the best education they can get. Most MAC schools aren't too flashy on that front.

Moise Frisch (HS- 4:13, 1:52) was heavily recruited by Princeton (among other schools) and chose to attend Eastern Michigan.

Ralphy wrote:

Moise Frisch (HS- 4:13, 1:52) was heavily recruited by Princeton (among other schools) and chose to attend Eastern Michigan.

There are anomalies in every group.

Its not like EMU (or the other MAC) schools are terrible institutions, just that they aren't very presitigious. To MOST athletes, this will lead them away to other schools...better academics, better name-brand, better running program...

but some guys want to be close to home, be around a certain area, run for a certain coach, any number of things. No argument about anything is every going to be 100% conclusive.

I have nothing against the MAC. More power to EMU...but of course the other guys ripping apart MAC teams even said EMU was one of the few they felt differently about. Unfortunately their coach just left, right?

EMU has a strong history of decent distance groups. Indoor DMR this year was great.

boring review wrote:

Miami's women should and will dominate. There are no other programs dreaming of making Nationals!

Except for Toledo women. Last year Miami and Toledo combined scored less than 3rd place team. Toledo went on to dominate Miami at Regionals and was first team in region to not make NCAAs. Miami loses three of top-5 and Toledo returns all but their 3rd runner.

Miami, Toledo and Ohio should battle. Toledo has returning champ and another 5 women under 17:35 on the track. Toledo and OU have top recruiting classes as well.

I think Miami will still be tough for one more year. Ohio brings back two big ones off redshirts. CMU doesn't have firepower to compete with those schools outside of Loehner.

What happened to Akron?

If Goodridge is out at eastern, the distance program will struggle mightly. Will Sue Parks be the distance coach of men and women?

If Goodridge is out at eastern, the distance program will struggle mightly. Will Sue Parks be the distance coach of men and women?

The head track coach is gone. Not Goodgridge.

Moise Frisch did absolutely nothing at eastern of note this year and he went there becasue he could get in academically and was give a full ride. Period.

Whether you like the guys in the MAC now I think it's important for all runners/fans of the sport from the midwest to support its substantial long-term feasibility & growth. I agree a lot of the guys I know in the MAC are tools, but I know a lot that are great guys. There are some really solid runners & a lot of high school guys that developed a ton collegately. Look at Ridge Robinson at OU- maybe running 9:40-50 in high school to breaking 30 in the 10k. That's impressive. He's a diamond in the rough.

The unfortunately thing is that Title IX has seriously hampered the MAC. The mediocre football programs have seriously handcuffed non revenue sports. ADs want to make them powerhouse football programs & lets face it, those guys are just not good enough to draw big crowds. Of course, the MAC can't recruit like the Big 10, but they also cannot take everyone & their mother like D3 & Malone in order to develop them like a lot of solid programs. (which malone & a lot of d3 Ohio & Michigan schools are) There are huge budget restrictions on MAC schools that causes huge problems.

That being said, I think it's important that people don't give up on the MAC even though right now compared to where it was in the 60s & 70s is atrocious, it's still competitive & can get back to that level if the running community continues to push & fight for XC & Track at those schools.

That starts from the bottom up- XC programs that have track programs cut- if you want to ever get track back again- you need to take your training more seriously. I'm embarrassed for OU runners that go out & party- 4-5 nights a week as do I for Toledo guys that run low 25s in XC & then don't run a step all winter. Of course no one is going to give a shit about your program in your community if you are on the front page of the paper getting wasted every weekend.

If we want to see Track & XC thrive in the midwest, it's imparative that the MACs distance running for men is sustained short term & long term. Everyone can make a difference... Getting on here bashing guys for being cocky assholes isnt going to get it done. Promote your sport MAC athletes. Take pride in what you do.

Like I said, as a long time OH coach I was stunned to see what kind of shape MAC runners were in during a reunion. Some of these kids I coached, others I was just familar with by being at the big time OH HS invitationals. Many looked way over optimal race weight. I assume this is from the partying and lack of discpline (eating dining hall junk and not running in the winters).

MAC coaches need to get this under control. I am speaking about more than a few of the programs.

OHRunner:

And I guess every single one of YOUR athletes is cut, fit, and racing at a high level. Would you please provide us a list of all the state champions that you have coached? Bet we won't hear from you and you'll go back and crawl into your cave.

I never claimed to have coached state champions. However, I will attest to the strong dedication I requested of my top varsity athletes (several went on to run and are running in the MAC). I take some pride in having my runners resting, eating right, etc...unlike many of the other sports where individuals went out to party and excessively drink, wasting away their talent. Many of the runners kept detailed logs about sleeping, resting, eating. If this can be done in HS why can it not be done in COLLEGE? No excuse to have collegiate athletes visibly overweight for distance competition. Obviously the athlete's character is in part to blame, but the coach should be able to at least make sure the kids are eating right and not partying after every practice.

The MAC is dying on the vine. It will be completely gone, or re-organized by 2015.

A combination of Title IX and football ambitions (particularly football) are killing the MAC.

Football is not a revenue generator for 90% of all schools. MAC has had a fine tradition in T&F in the past, and some fine schools.

For the win in 2010 - Terefe Ejigu (EMU & New Zealand & Ethiopia).

My very early predictions. I have not heard much on the recruiting front from EMU, WMU, Kent, Akron, UB so this is very early.

Men:

1. Eastern Michigan

2. Kent State

3. Central Michigan

4. Ohio (Robinson back)

5. Miami

6. Toledo

7. Buffalo

8. Akron

9. Bowling Green

Women:

1. Toledo

2. Miami

3. Ohio

4. Central Michigan

5. Eastern Michigan

6. Kent State

7. Akron

8. Bowling Green

9. Buffalo

10. Western Michigan

11. Northern Illinois

12. Ball State

Go Chips!

Anything new on the MAC front? Time to start. Who has predictions?

OHRunner:

And I guess every single one of YOUR athletes is cut, fit, and racing at a high level. Would you please provide us a list of all the state champions that you have coached? Bet we won't hear from you and you'll go back and crawl into your cave.

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Don't compare HS to college. In HS, anyone can come out and compete. Even on good teams, probably only half of the guys are all-out committed. The other half do it because they like it, or to have fun. Unlike in college where EVERYONE is there because they were recruited, and should be committed.

And coach, how many legitimate state champions have you RECRUITED and have on your team? My guess is that your number is the same or maybe a little higher than his response.