Rupp is (relatively) limited on the speed side, not stamina; it's a mistake to think he could run much faster right now. He'll need to pull down his mile/3000 to get to 13 flat. Right now he's matched McChesney marks 356/1314 on 1.5x as much volume.
Rupp is (relatively) limited on the speed side, not stamina; it's a mistake to think he could run much faster right now. He'll need to pull down his mile/3000 to get to 13 flat. Right now he's matched McChesney marks 356/1314 on 1.5x as much volume.
I agree that this stuff about the cold is a little overboard. I have had bad colds on a Monday and Tuesday started to recover by Wednesday and Thursday and run a pr on Saturday. It would have been a different thing if he got this cold on Thursday or Friday but he got it pretty early in the week. I doubt this has mch of an effect on his race. Overall I think he still loses to Lagat by just as much the time just may have been a bit faster. Lagat I think has been running some speed to get ready for the Wannamaker mile. That was one of his goals this year so I think he put some early speed in and he has that on Rupp right now. Outdoors it may be a different question. The fact is that Rupp ran well and he will have a good year if he can keep it up but lets give it a rest with this cold.
Yes, his speed is a limiting factor. His 800 is out of whack compared to the rest (and I think we can ignore that 1500 since his mile is solid). From the IAAF tables:
1:49.87i - 1085 pts
3:39.14 - 1118 pts
3:56.22i - 1179 pts
7:44.69i - 1172 pts
13:14.21i - 1209 pts
27:33.48 - 1173 pts
dsrunner has the day off wrote:
Rupp is (relatively) limited on the speed side, not stamina; it's a mistake to think he could run much faster right now. He'll need to pull down his mile/3000 to get to 13 flat. Right now he's matched McChesney marks 356/1314 on 1.5x as much volume.
Excellent comment, this is why Rupp will never run a fast 5k, I mean his underdistance PRs are similar to that Dathan Ritzenhein fella for God's sake! And we know how slow he is. I think until Rupp drops down to 50 mpw like all the other world class 5k/10k guys, and gets his 800 PR down to 1:44-1:45, he's doomed to be an also-ran. Maybe you could train him, dsrunner? Drop all those wasteful miles, show him how useless volume is?
Rupp was training through this race. Everyone else was peaking for this race.
I knew starting this thread that there would be the inevitable "I ran a 5K with a cold and it didn't slow me down any" (for an 18-minute road race... man you are TOUGH!).
I have seen Rupp run and be interviewed both live and taped many times, and he was definitely under the weather. Alberto's opinion holds way more sway here than any internet anon trolls.
Personally, I'm a Solinsky fan (was happy to see the last UW race), but Rupp has made it clear that he is extraordinarily fit and mentally tough. Respect.
To correct some of the typical Oregon bullshit:
"I was hoping for a good honest pace, which there was," Rupp said. "We decided that I should go with 1000 meters. I wasn't too worried about moving that early and I just tried to keep it going."
"When Galen came up during the last 1K, that helped," Lagat said. "He gave me a little break."
But Rupp, who said he felt no ill effects from a cold he battled all week leading up to the race, was unable to put Lagat away. With 350 meters put his milers kick into gear, avoided being boxed in by the Ethiopians, and moved to the front. The rest was history.
For Rupp, it was a history lesson.
"He's just a little bit faster than me," Rupp said. "Bernard, he's still got it. He's got incredible speed. I learned that when you're racing him, you can't let it come down to the last 200 meters."
http://www.universalsports.com/news/article/newsid=405797.html
The difference between the athletes is so great that when Rupp went for the win, Lagat felt he was getting a break!
So cut Oregon arrogance about how Rupp is going break, 13, 27.... When the last lap came, everyone saw who the real athletes were...and weren't. And Rupp, at least at this point, doesn't have the speed to contend with the top people, which is probably why Salazar originally had him running the mile in that meet.
OMG i can't believe i made such a huge mistake as to list Webb 2 secs faster then he actually ran. I must be getting old. My memory just isn't what it use to be. Thanks
here ya go!
Webb-
Berlin Golden League- 13:10.86- Berlin, Germany 2005-09-04
glad you corrected yourself...
Doesn't just about every runner on the planet (except Coach D apparently) agree that it is usually harder to lead a race than to be a follower?
Coach D wrote:
To correct some of the typical Oregon bullshit:
"I was hoping for a good honest pace, which there was," Rupp said. "We decided that I should go with 1000 meters. I wasn't too worried about moving that early and I just tried to keep it going.""When Galen came up during the last 1K, that helped," Lagat said. "He gave me a little break."
But Rupp, who said he felt no ill effects from a cold he battled all week leading up to the race, was unable to put Lagat away. With 350 meters put his milers kick into gear, avoided being boxed in by the Ethiopians, and moved to the front. The rest was history.
For Rupp, it was a history lesson.
"He's just a little bit faster than me," Rupp said. "Bernard, he's still got it. He's got incredible speed. I learned that when you're racing him, you can't let it come down to the last 200 meters."
http://www.universalsports.com/news/article/newsid=405797.htmlThe difference between the athletes is so great that when Rupp went for the win, Lagat felt he was getting a break!
So cut Oregon arrogance about how Rupp is going break, 13, 27.... When the last lap came, everyone saw who the real athletes were...and weren't. And Rupp, at least at this point, doesn't have the speed to contend with the top people, which is probably why Salazar originally had him running the mile in that meet.
Why should people stop saying that he is going to break 13/27? In terms of championships won or marks made not Ritz, Teg, Kennedy or Lagat were more impressive than Rupp at this point in their careers. The guy wins 6 NCAA titles last year making sub 13:30 guys look like complete also rans and prs at 800, 1500, mile, 3K & 5K, including an american indoor record and now opens up indoors with a pr in the mile and a pr in the 5K and we're supposed to assume that he will not get to the direction he's heading for?
That's not logical, that's just wishing he doesn't. He didn't even look good and slugs out a 13:14 by applying the pressure and turning it back into a fast race. Contrast that with last year when he was half stepping in the middle of his AR of 13:18. At that point he was sharp and healthy and he closed in :27. If he can come out and run like this while not sharp and....curse me for using the sick card...possibly being less than 100% things are looking good for him this outdoor season.
That's the thing about Rupp, when he's off, it's still damn respectable.
ok first off I have a 14:03 pr so don't act like I am an 18 min road racer. Secondly I never said anything about being tough I did however say that I don't think a cold he had earlier in the week affected him that much overall. I also said that I thought it would be hard for him to beat Lagat because of the fact that Lagat has more speed training due to the Wannamaker mile. Yes Rupp may have been able to run a little bit faster time but I believe had he run faster the other guys just run faster. He doesn't have the foot speed right now to beat a guy like Lagat. At the end of the summer though it may be an entirely different story.
onlooker11 wrote:
ok first off I have a 14:03 pr so don't act like I am an 18 min road racer. Secondly I never said anything about being tough I did however say that I don't think a cold he had earlier in the week affected him that much overall. I also said that I thought it would be hard for him to beat Lagat because of the fact that Lagat has more speed training due to the Wannamaker mile. Yes Rupp may have been able to run a little bit faster time but I believe had he run faster the other guys just run faster. He doesn't have the foot speed right now to beat a guy like Lagat. At the end of the summer though it may be an entirely different story.
14:03 is decent for a 4k, but it still only puts you in the mid to high 17s for a 5k...
onlooker11 wrote:He doesn't have the foot speed right now to beat a guy like Lagat.
In fairness to Rupp, there's probably not anyone in the world who can outkick Lagat at 5000 at this particular moment. Did you see what he did to the world's best miler last week?