Joining a Country Club

"Judging by your initial post, I can assume you are not Jewish, black, or Catholic?"

No doubt that blacks are still quite discriminated against in many areas, including country club membership.

I would be curious if you know any country clubs that still exclude catholics and Jews. I would guess there are more exclusive clubs these days that exclude non Jews

Open Question wrote:

Bonus that I get a place to work out, hang-out, eat, socialize, drink, etc.

Add to that the fact that we will have a place to celebrate holidays and special events throughout life. Everything from the Easter Bunny to weddings.

There is one thing to be said for country clubs; they drain off a lot of people you wouldn't want to associate with anyway.

My experiences with country clubs are negative.

My father belonged to perhaps the most snobby one in one of our largest cities. He belongs to other clubs as well.

Yet like many at this place, it was for show and for prestige. He didn't support his kids in or through college, or take much of an interest in the family he chose to have. Abandoned my mother for a younger model. She of course suffered for years until my brother and I could buy her a house and provide her with income to live decently - my father left a wake of detritus behind. Many just like him at the club, too - lots of them. Very into what cars they drive as well. Lots of them confuse or conflate credentialism with achievement, too, or a sense of intellectual acuity. Certainly not all at these clubs share these negative qualities, but enough did in my experience. I now belong to a conservatory where for a minimal charge for membership we buy and manage land to hike (property is in the mountains). Much cheaper and frankly a lot of fun, without all the social climbing and obtaining of faux prestige. Works for me.

I never fit in with the club types either. My brother and I were Div. 1 scholarship runners - and waltzing around a golf course talking about a missed putt just didn't jive with the running experience.

I am not sure I can complain about my own life experience as going entirely on my own without any assistance (or prestige nonsense) at some of this nation's best schools hardly qualifies me as a hardship case today. But it has left an imprint.

As I state above, I am sure there were some good people at the prestige clubs, but it is a scene I like to avoid. Perhaps this is an over-reaction, but I do like to be measured more on what I know that who I know. And this is not some sour grapes point of view - I make a better living than my father ever did.

I will say this - and it is not only about country clubs - and it is clearly the most harshly judgmental view I hold. Watch carefully how people treat the wait staff and caddies and employees at the club. If they generally order them around and treat them poorly, avoid the place like the plague. One almost sure way to measure character is to observe how people treat wait staff and similar workers at restaurants or service establishments. We all should go out of our way to understand the realities these folks experience and treat them with the utmost respect (and without a condescending tone) - they are, after all, working - a great thing for anyone, and sometimes under conditions that are not that great. This doesn't mean that we should expect lesser service, but treating people well is simply an imperative.

You are right, but these things happen everywhere. As a matter of fat, you might be able to look at it like this:

That girl would probably be dead had her boyfriend been driving anything other than a Benz...

No kid is going to go hang out at the church all summer long, I am sorry.

I think we would get along well.

Obviously you realize a lot of your negative perceptions come from your father being a total asshole (sorry man, that is rude of me), and not necessarily the club, per se. I had a great family life growing up, but I agree with 100% of what you wrote. I too was a D1 scholarship runner, and I am right there with you regarding the golf thing. Here is the deal... golf combines three thing that I like to do - be outside, drink beer and shoot the shit with buddies. Obviously I get two of those when running, which I will always do, but this is just something we will do for fun, not to define ourselves.

I will tell you a little story about one time I went to dinner with my wife's family prior to our wedding (at the same club we are considering). We had a large table of folks, and one of the men (friend of my father-in-law) was being kind of an ass to the waitress. This waitress was commonly hired by my in-laws for various things at their house (babysitting, bridal showers, dinner parties, etc.) and is really close with my wife. I guess this guy didn't know this, and was just being a dick. Anyway, my father in law stands up mid-dinner, apologizes to the waitress in front of everyone, and asks the man to please leave the table and meet him in the bar. The guy never came back to the table, and I have not seen him since. I have lived here 3 years.

Anyway, there is a lot of respect for the staff. The same folks have worked there for years. People are proud of the bartenders, manager, etc. Pretty good vibe. Like I said, we do not belong at this point, but when we go with the in-laws or my parents, everyone knows the names of our kids, etc.

That conservatory is a great idea, do you mind me asking where you live? At least general part of the country? I wonder if I have anything like that nearby.

hmmm again and again wrote:

My father belonged to perhaps the most snobby one in one of our largest cities. He belongs to other clubs as well.

Yet like many at this place, it was for show and for prestige. He didn't support his kids in or through college, or take much of an interest in the family he chose to have. Abandoned my mother for a younger model. She of course suffered for years until my brother and I could buy her a house and provide her with income to live decently - my father left a wake of detritus behind.

hey, bitter boy. your dad obviously recognized that you were a loser and moved on to greener pastures.

Joseph Prescott wrote:

Open Question wrote:

There is one thing to be said for country clubs; they drain off a lot of people you wouldn't want to associate with anyway.

____________________________________________

That's it in a nutshell.

Typical WASP's.

No time for church, family or working around the the house.

So, if you make alot of money.

Someone clean's you house. Someone else cuts your lawn.

Take the wife and kids to the CC, and someone entertains them too.

You? You get to golf often and be known as a father and provider. It'll only cost you about 25k for the wait list ( non refundable) and about 40k a year for drinks, meals, dues, etc.

Enjoy your life. No Jews, Blacks, or people expecting you to do the "give back to the community" crap.

Don't worry about volunteering or giving blood at a blood drive, or hell, even talking to anyone who's kid is in the military serving his/her country.

You will be safe in your own little world of golf, a drunken wife, pleanty booze and people kissing your ass. Aaaaahhhh.

Give your monthly sum to your local Church. Get involved there. That will benefit your children and your family much more than spending it on those leisure things a country club will provide.

If you aren't a Christian, than disregard this and joing the country club.

I think I may be able to offer some value into this discussion, having multiple perspectives.

I grew up working at a nice country club, but nothing outlandish. It was only 15 years old. 45k upfront, 400 a month in the the Midwest. Great golf course/pool/tennis courts/workout facility. The members were by and large incredibly nice. I caddied for several summers (7th grade through freshman in College) and met some absolutely great guys. There were occasional assholes, but by and large everyone was polite. One guy even went to bat for me when it came to applying for jobs when I was in school.

Since then, I've been dating someone that grew up as a member at a similar place and she seems to think it is the only way to raise children/lead a social life. Not in a bad/snobby way, it is just what she knows. I think if the club is a complete package ie golf/tennis/pool/programs for the kids it is good for the family. A CC is not mutually exclusive with church, community service, etc

There are still many clubs that are exclusively white, exclusively male, and really frown on Jews/Catholics. I've been lucky enough to play multiple top 100 courses, and most of them have been this way. The absolute best golf experiences tend to be the places that just do golf (no family stuff) and don't allow women. These are also places that are very difficult to get in. This means unless you are a fortune 500 executive, legacy, or high level politician (senator/governor), you're not getting in, especially in state. Most of these places are 100k-250k upfront and they just split expenses evenly at the end of the year between the members. It is important to realize 200k is not even real serious money at these places. I'm not saying any of this is right, it is just how it is.

My advice, if money isn't an issue, go for it. The lifestyle of a collegiate runner is not one you can live forever, you'll enjoy it, and it will be good for your family.

I Dont Suck wrote:

You are right, but these things happen everywhere. As a matter of fat, you might be able to look at it like this:

That girl would probably be dead had her boyfriend been driving anything other than a Benz...

No kid is going to go hang out at the church all summer long, I am sorry.

1. It was one of those old small convertable coupes (1980s, remember). The car almost split in two. The liver damage was from splinters from the tree. Had she been with me in my parents 1977 Buick LeSabre, that tree would have been kindling. Back then, and today, the CC kids get cars that are just not appropriate for young drivers.

2. You obviously do not live in the south. Between bible camp, church sports leagues and youth ministry activities, you can keep a kid going all summer at church. Not my cup of tea. But the point is that it is certainly a viable alternative to the CC. I went to summer camp for Jews.

The point is that the idea that everything is just great for kids behind the walls of the CC is just not true. There are oodles of activities out there for good clean kids. But, you run the risk of having your child become friends with a kid named Humberto or Jamal. And the drive to seclude your kids behind the walls of the country club is much less about safety and much more about making sure your kids associate with other nice white christians.

What kind of unsafe places do you normally socialize, exercise and celebrate?

I would not want to be a member of any country club,

that would have me.

Open Question wrote:

With all due respect... They would likely get knifed at the YMCA in our city. Plus the YMCA doesn't have all of our friends.

So, by "safe" you mean "no black people".

So sure, go join country club because you are certainy the country club type.

interesting article about CCs

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/top-stocks/blog.aspx?post=1349433&_blg=1,1349433

Keith Stone wrote:

Open Question wrote:

With all due respect... They would likely get knifed at the YMCA in our city. Plus the YMCA doesn't have all of our friends.

So, by "safe" you mean "no black people".

So sure, go join country club because you are certainy the country club type.

So, when you hear "knifing," you assume black people are the knife-wielders?

walter wrote:

So, when you hear "knifing," you assume black people are the knife-wielders?

No, when I hear "if we went to local YMCA we'd get knifed" I think of the people that join Golds Gym in the 'burbs because when they went to the local Y there were a lot of black kids with baggy shorts playing basketball.

Since I work a local YMCA 5K/Half that raises money to pay memberships for those same kids I don't assume they're doing the knifing, but I know for a fact there are plenty that don't like the Y because they are there. I may get irritated with them because they could do a better job directing traffic or manning a water stop, but I don't consider them hoodlums even though they really try hard to look the part.

Unfortunately this does not surprise me, especially if it's an area of an upscale neighborhood/city. I've heard plenty stuff that went on near a country club where we live. We use to belong to the social club and had access to the pool and club but hardly used it. I thought it was a waste of money so we stopped the membership. The food wasn't that great and the golf course was a dog track.

Hubby rather play a muni...

To the OP, I'm sure ALL country clubs are not like that...I have a sister and brother in law back in the midwest, who belongs to a club and they seem to enjoy it very much. I'm just not a country club gal. I rather be out running-- :)

why is it some feel it appropriate to impose their value system on another? (why would anyone pay a fee to exercise and get a logo'd tee shirt? send that $15-$50 to your church/charity)

why is it country club membership and running/charity are conflicts? i tithe to my church. i donate over $10K/yr to local charities. my family works fundraisers and a "soup kitchen" one weekend per month. i, my wife, and 2 of 3 kids run everyday before we go to the club to swim/golf/play/hang-out. the third is simply never gonna run, oh well.

to the OP. if you can afford it (comfortably and long term) and it's not for status, go for it.

Honestly, most of the people down on CCs are just insecure. It is pretty easy to spot them, especially the guy talking about the YMCAs. It is not uncommon for the YMCAs in many cities to be a little dangerous. Some are very nice, others are scary as hell. Not somewhere I would want my kids hanging out.

Vilifying CC members is the easy thing to do. Tell one story about a drunk driver and all of a sudden all CC members are drunken slobs.

In reality, most CC members are very active in their communities, and likely do a hell of a lot more than the people on here bashing them.

I get a chuckle from the people who think running and joining a CC are mutually exclusive. Do you really run 24 hours a day?

Join the CC.