Kid refuses to say the pledge!

I had a couple teachers growing up who would not stand for someone "defiling" the pledge of allegiance. If you didn't stand right, hold your hand right, speak loudly and clearly, and stare right at that flag, you were singled out and made an example of. And yes, we recited it every single day. These teachers were bullies, plain and simple. They were old hags, and seemd miserable, so take this for what it's worth. But there were a few Jehovah's witnesses around in my elementary years. My 5th grade teacher, Mrs. Abernathy that old crusty bitch, was incensed that these "unamerican" people were allowed to attend our school. She stated this right in class - actually saying it TO the kids in front of the class. "What do you mean you don't say the pledge. EVERYONE says the pledge! You will stand up and put your hand on your heart right now!" When the school told her to back off, she made them leave the room during the pledge. This is the same woman who tried to start class with prayer 4 years earlier when my brother had her for his 5th grade teacher.

There are teachers out there who WILL try to force every single kid into their way of thinking. They will try to force children to conform and say the pledge. This issue should be made public, because many kids that young are too fearful to stand up for themselves and the teacher can keep right on terrorizing them the rest of the school year. The pledge is NOT required, and those teachers who would try to force everyone to say it should be reprimanded or fired.

Having said all that, I don't want anyone to think I am just criticizing teachers all around. I think on the whole teachers are probably the most under-appreciated professionals in our society, and I have a lot of friends from college who are teachers and some are damn good. I had some fantastic teachers who I credit with really putting me on the right pathmy and fostering my lifelong love of learning. But there are some real stinkers out there, and the influence they can have over children is powerful. Good for this kid to stand up for himself and not have someone else's agenda forced on him.

What a retard. He gets on the news for believing there is not 'liberty and justice for all'. Lets not pretend like he is a hero or anything. First of all his views are completely skewed (which is fine, he is 10) but Gays and Lesbians have every right others have(marriages being recognized by the federal government is not a right)...and second, the reason he got sent to the office was because he told the teacher to go 'jump off a bridge' not because he was refusing to stand up for the pledge.

Pittman3 wrote:

So let me see if I got this right? You want to live here in America, where you were born. But, you do not agree with our government? You use and maybe even abuse the first amendment, and yet refuse to show any allegiance to that very same government that obtained that 1st Amendment.

OK. I understand now.

You want the freedome to say what you want, and abuse the right to have freedom of expression. Yet, you are against the very same government that obtained that right for you.

Let me ask you a very simple question. Ever serve your country, or do you just live in it?

Let me ask you a simple question: did you ever get an education or did you show up to school everyday and they just promoted you?

The Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist, Francis Bellamy.

Want to know why he wrote it? To help with sales of the flag to school houses. It seems the company he was working for had a plan to sell flags to every school. When business started to lag, they wanted to a tie-in to the 400th anniversary of Columbus' voyage. So they came up with a "flag salute", and wrote the pledge to go along with it.

Not sure if you've seen the pictures, but this was the "Bellamy Salute" as it became known:

The Pledge was a marketing idea, conceived by a socialist, accompanied by a fascist salute - with the original words changed - and you're getting your pants twisted because someone won't pledge.

Go soak your head, you fraud.

Better yet, gather your friends in the cave with you and recite the pledge until armageddon comes.

Old habits die hard. 100 years from now we will be doing something else that the country will protest for 20 years after that claiming that it is unconstitutional or morally f'd up. Roll with it baby and enjoy the change of the tide that is being a human being on this planet. Woo-hoo!!!

It's much ado about nothing. If a kid doesn't want to say the pledge, he shouldn't be forced to say it (although it's funny that schools can force kids to do all kinds of shit they don't want to do, and no one seems to be bothered by it).

However, as parent I try to make sure my kids really think through what actions they take. Everyone knows that some kids will refuse to say the pledge for no other reason than to 'stick it to the man!'. They really have no knowledge or appreciation for what this country provides them and the sacrifices people have made to give them freedom. There is nothing wrong with showing a little appreciation for that.

We want our kids to question authority and tradition. That is healthy for the country, and leads to progress. But there is a big difference between really doing your homework and respectfully questioning authority in the tradition of a committed activist, and simply being an ignorant, disrespectful prick. When I was a kid, most of the 'non conformists' were of the latter variety. And then they grew up and seem to be primarily motivated by making money.

The Plege has been used and abused these many years, even IKE decided it was good politics to add God's name to the mix.

Funny one. One of the leaders of the right wingnut teabaggers decided to start things off with the Pledge of Allegiance. He didn't really know the words and got things all screwed up. So much for patriotism.

We're talking about a substitute teacher here.

She overstepped her bounds.

Then the principle screwed up by saying an apology from the teacher was not necessary.

The regular teacher can't be too happy coming back to this.

You can't let a 10 year old cause all this trouble.

You have to know that you can't force him to pledge. Just let him sit or stand there quietly and move on with class.

The public debate on this topic is long over.

This is just a story about a whacky substitute teacher. The 10 year old was acting like a kid.

The pledge is some serious weird shit. It's the kind of thing a totalitarian state does (for the same stated reasons people are using here). The point of school shouldn't be to churn out nationalistic drones. No one needs to pledge allegiance to understand the country, and I seriously doubt elementary school kids know what they're doing.

Holy shit! letsrun teaches! Look like any other kind of salute we've seen in the past 70 years or so?

Thanks for the lesson Dave. And you're exactly right.

Here's another objection to compulsory recitation of the pledge: A democratic republic built on dissent should not require its citizens to pledge allegiance to it. The best way to instill a love of country in young people (if that is the intent of the Pledge) is to teach them about their country without such a compulsion.

Should we do away with the National Anthem before sporting events? Just asking. I'm not saying one way or the other. Just interested in your input.

Guppy of newe wrote:

The pledge is some serious weird shit. It's the kind of thing a totalitarian state does (for the same stated reasons people are using here). The point of school shouldn't be to churn out nationalistic drones. No one needs to pledge allegiance to understand the country, and I seriously doubt elementary school kids know what they're doing.

Totalitarian states have kids pledge allegiance to a person, like Hitler or Kim Jong-Il. Our pledge is to our ideals of democracy and liberty. There is a difference.

All the kids are really doing is pledging allegiance to the very concepts that allow them to refuse to say the pledge if they want. Funny, isn't it?

Our republic is far from perfect. We must all try to make it better. But I'm still waiting for someone who hates our government to tell me what better form of government, invented by human beings, exists besides modern liberal democracy? There used to be seriously committed communists in our country, but after the wall fell most of them have faded into the background. Democracy is the only game in town these days. We're just arguing on how it should best wrok, not if it should exist.

Orange Crush wrote:

Mt. Dew, if you grew up in my neighborhood, you would have gotten you arse kicked regularly.

You think this "republic" is bad try living in another country. You'll come screaming back in no time you schmuck.

1- EU is a fantastic place to live (although some recent inductees may not stand up to that statement).

2- Seems like you grew up in Kansas/related area.

3- You sound fat.

I think we can leave the national anthem alone. No one is forced to sing it, or stand up, or put their hands on hearts, or take off their hats. It is suggested as a show of respect, but no one is forced to do it. And as far as I'm concerned, the pledge can be said in schools if the kids want to. But no one should be forced to. That was my point.

I agree with what The Bare Facts said above that there are kids who don't want to do it just because they want to be dicks. The kids who have reasonable objections, have the right to make those objections and abstain, though.

bruinboy wrote:

Should we do away with the National Anthem before sporting events? Just asking. I'm not saying one way or the other. Just interested in your input.

I'm in favor of doing away with it. I just don't see any connection w/ the game. Can't get worked up about it, though.

Bare Facts, I mostly agree with what you're saying. But the first line is "I pledge allegiance to the flag." I understand that the flag represents our country and the principles on which it was founded. But one of the central tenets on which this country was founded was the freedom of personal expression and the freedom to pracice one's own religion (or lack thereof) free from persecution. Remember that many of our founding fathers were essentially Daoists or even outright atheists. Yes, we should all respect the fact that we have a nation built on the principles it is, but we must also allow those principles to be true.

I'm reminded of the theme song to Team America: World Police - "America F--- Yeah! Freedom is the only way!" See the irony in that? That's the mentality of many these days, and it's destructive.

And to nitpick a little, we don't live in a democracy. We live in a republic: "...and to the republic for which it stands." There is no true democracy on earth. A true democracy would have you voting on every single decision made by the government, including which contractor should get the city contract for cleaning the sewers. It is completely inefficient to have a democracy. Republic is the only game in town.

By high school, we weren't doing the pledge anymore. It had mainly been something you did in "home room" before doing to other classes, and home room was 15 minutes at most in high school. And there were plenty of kids who would NOT have done it. I think it was mainly an elementary school thing (through grade six) and maybe junior high, too.

Correct

Really, how exactly do we abuse it?

We do not pledge allegiance to the government. We pledge allegiance to the "republic for which it [the flag] stands". The government we have not is most definitely NOT the "republic for which it stands"

Again, where is the abuse? The right to express oneself necessarily includes the right NOT to express oneself, particularly when someone attempts to compel the "expression".

This is NOT the "very same government" that obtained that right for me. The government that obtained the first amendment has been dead for 200 years. The government we have now has never obtained any rights for me. Mostly it seems interested in taking them away..

They can leave the anthem before games but get rid of God Bless America at the 7th inning stretch and bring back "Take Me Out to the Ball Game"

Preferably a taped version from a drunk Harry Caray.

X-Runner wrote:

They can leave the anthem before games but get rid of God Bless America at the 7th inning stretch and bring back "Take Me Out to the Ball Game"

Preferably a taped version from a drunk Harry Caray.

Agreed 100%. Harry Caray was awesome.