How fast do you have to be to walk onto Brown University XC w/o getting cut by the coach?

Being on a roster is different than being considered a regular student. If you are going to train with the team, you would have to be on the roster because of liability issues. The reason that liability is such an problem is because of all of the dirtbags who turned around and sued the coach/team/school when they got hurt, or lost, because they tried to stay up with runners who were much better than they'd ever be. Another reason walk-ons may not be allowed is that no matter how many times that a walk-on says that they won't be a problem, invariably they end up taking the time of the coach, when they ask how they can get better despite their genetics. When they get hurt (and they will because they're trying to run with people who are dramatically better than them, so they race every day), they bother the trainers, who would prefer to be spending their time on athletes who will make an impact on their team's performance. Keep on having overtraining distance guys parade through the trainers room because they always get hurt, and that staff will turn on you as a coach for wasting their time. See what happens when a good athlete gets hurt, when the staff doesn't bother with them. It just isn't worth it having somebody on the team who just wants to run with people. A ton of people would love to play hoops with people all the time, but the basketball coach isn't going to invite everyone to practice. Why should the Cross Country or Track coach do it?

There may also be roster limits, though probably not at an Ivy.

As a walk-on in D2 cross country, I strained my ankle and was in the trainer room (my coach also happened to be in the trainers room with some scholarship athletes) getting it looked at, and the trainer, not knowing I wasn't an IMPACT runner on the team, tried to get my coach's attention to tell him what was wrong with the ankle and what I should be doing for it, etc., and my coach ignored the trainer ~3times because he was busy (even though trainer woman was trying hard to get his attention), then finally my coach just kinda looked over, laughed a bit, and said back to the trainer "just cut it off."

I use a soft standard with freshman. I use that year to figure out which guys add to the team chemistry and may have potential and are generally low-maintenance. I've kept good guys that will never travel and tossed a few that drove me crazy. You'll need to be the type of athlete that doesn't need a lot of attention. If it's a very important priority than finding a school with similar academics and scaled down athletics is your best bet.

Just to clear something up: someone earlier suggested that Williams is a good place for 18 minute 5k guys, which is completely false. They may not cut you, but Williams is better than many D1 programs. For example, they beat Brown, Dartmouth, and Boston College at the NIAAA meet this year, and their team's average time was only 16 seconds behind Providence. D3 is not nearly as weak as you suggest.

Can coach cut someone just because he's kind of high maitenance? We had a kid come out in XC as a frosh who was annoying as heck, had bit of excess body fat flabs 1st day at practice, I would judge probably in 31min ish 8k shape, also had aspbergers syndrome and he was the only one cut in my 4 years with the D2 team.

Can the coach single a guy out like that just because he's aspbergers and annoying as sht? I think he had an 800 mat SAT but he was just a really strange dude.

I ask too because we hadn't had any races yet and I think there may have been one or two other guys in worse shape who acted normal, avoided being pains in the neck, and didn't have aspbergers and they could stay with the team. No time trials, just that the coach thought this guy was messed up in the head and really out of shape

If there isn't an objective way to cutting, then coach might set himself up for problems later along the line.

I've had no trouble. Only gratitude from the rest of the team. You don't tell a kid he's high maintenance. You just don't offer him a continued spot on the team. It's subjective with some objectivity. I don't keep a 35 minute kid because he's a nice guy.

Coach Jerk wrote:

I've had no trouble. Only gratitude from the rest of the team. You don't tell a kid he's high maintenance. You just don't offer him a continued spot on the team. It's subjective with some objectivity. I don't keep a 35 minute kid because he's a nice guy.

Yeah, but just because a kid has Asbergers, if there are people allowed on the team who are slower than he is, isn't that setting yourself up for problems? How do you get away with that if you do NOT hold some kind of time trial?

haha, yeah, williams beat the jv squads of dartmouth, brown, and finished an average of 16 seconds behind providence's jv

momoneyblinken2 wrote:Yeah, but just because a kid has Asbergers, if there are people allowed on the team who are slower than he is, isn't that setting yourself up for problems? How do you get away with that if you do NOT hold some kind of time trial?

As an aside, pestering people with annoying questions, and then repeating the question after it's already been answered, is another example of the type of behavior that will get you cut if you're a marginal athlete.

beat me to it.

yes, williams, amherst, haverford and other d3 programs have a lot of good runners -- williams usually has 10 to 15 sub 15:30 guys in any given year -- but please don't suggest that williams is almost as good as providence, etc.

i think your point is that an 18 minute 5k guy will not make the top 7 (or 20) at williams. that is true, but at least pete will let that kid on the team. same is true with most d3 programs -- they usually don't cut guys.

Great answer. Made me laugh.

OK. I'll bite. Problems with who? I have discretion over the team roster. Helicopter Parents learn quickly that I appreciate their support but not their opinions.

Truthfully, I became a runner after getting cut by the basketball team. Getting cut isn't the worst thing that can happen to someone.

Better question, why doesn't the Boston College Men's team take walk-ons?

They just finished 27th out of 36 teams at NE's and were the slowest team from the Boston area. Statistically 1 out of 5 walk-ons would probably be better than the guys on their roster.

I coach at a DII school. Our walk-on standard for guys is 10:30 for 3200m or 17:30 for a legit 5k. Our entire roster is on less then one total scholarship as it is, but we've still competed at the DII XC Championships (just meaning that you don't need superstars, just guys who want to put in the miles and develop).

Personally I was a 10:08/17 min xc kid in HS and ended up a solid college xc runner. Having run sub 25:00 for 8k and 31's for 10k I can safely say that there are lots of guys out there who are the same that just need time to develop. There was no magic to running 5:00 miles. The irony is that the same schools turning those kinds of guys away would love to have them on the team 2-3 years later when they are running at a competitive level.

I used to coach a guy who barely broke 4:30 in HS. He walked-on in college and eventually ran sub 4:00 for the mile, sub 8:00 for 3k and 13:46 for 5000m. Not a bad career.

All that to say, the most important thing when considering a college is finding a place you fit in academically, socially, enjoy the team atmosphere and believe in the coach and what you are doing long-term. There are A LOT of good coaches out there who will make you a lot better. But you have to enjoy the process and the people around you, if you do that then the running will take care of itself.

If you have a passion for the sport then you will find a school that appreciates that passion. And over time, you can get a lot of enjoyment out of the sport. All the best and keep running!

One of the difficulties with roster sizes is that many schools that have football will have to limit their numbers on the roster. While BC's results might not impress, they are probably dealing with a finite number for their roster, while having no athletic funding.