MD XC kid dq'd for shorts - RAMPAGE!!!

That county is a joke anyway this year. Check out the last italic part of this article..

http://runningmaryland.com/the-news/2591-baltimore-county-championships

Couldn't even keep football kids from practicing on main field of the meet during a county champ.

3 years ago the ER 4x8 got a dq at the state meet after setting a state record because one guy you could see the under armor logo on his compression shorts.

The balls to make the call is easy. Officials should not make a subjective decisions. I don't trust their judgement. In scanning the thread I did not see anyone call out the real problem, the coach. I am a coach and make my entire team stand before me dressed as they plan to participate. I know the rules and make sure all is correct. It was no different than a coach failing to get entries in on time or some other illegal issue. Blame the coach!

[quote]ponytayne wrote:

He also said to me "I want to know who brings that to the attention of the officials and who has the balls to make that call?" Indeed. That seems hopelessly arbitrary.

I coach High School XC and we always stress to our kids before a meet, that the same color must be used w/ compression shorts and ls undershirts for all team members. We use black...... navy, charcoal, etc are NOT acceptable. No logos, etc. It seems a little ridiculous to an old schooler like myself, but I've seen runners DQ'ed for some pretty ridiculous things. Last year at the State Track meet, the winning 4 X 800m team was DQ'ed for one athlete wearing black compression shorts and the others wearing navy. From 50m away, you could not spot the difference. It seemed very harsh to me, as the DQ'ed team won very convincingly. It made me wonder if an official spotted the "infraction", or was it another coach?? Obviously, there needs to be standards for uniforms, etc., but sometimes the rules do not seem reasonable or fair. Just my two cents.

that was a vile awful decision. if i was the coach who won based on that decision i would be embarrassed to even touch the trophy. there is no way i'd accept it, or allow my team to call themselves the winners.

In college you can run with a fricken cinder block around your neck and not get DQ'd. High school officials need to back off... and start letting the kids wear watches if they want too, also a stupid rule

Well.... wrote:

if the rule is so important, then why not do checks before the race? At my kids' soccer games, the refs check for compliance before the game. A junior bike races they do roll outs to verify legal gearing.

Of course, this rule probably isn't so important.

Agree with this: they should inspect people before the race and give them a chance to remove any conflicting clothing. This was done for me at the Hispanic Games in NYC in 2002, where I came in with shiny hair pieces. I was told at the line in the prelim heats that all shiny hair pieces and jewelry were to be removed. I wasn't from NYC (traveled in from New England) so I was frantically trying to remove the stuff until an official said for me to be sure to remove it before the next round. I made it to the next round and quickly redid my hair and removed jewelry. Since then, basic ponytail and no jewelry (not even watches) for me.

abacus & rtjfg have got it right here.

Stitching on the under shorts? That's what this DQ is for? Are you kidding me?

For those saying "a rule is a rule", do you believe that none of the other competitors at this meet wore any conforming attire? None? Or was this competitor singled out due to their result? I honestly don't know the answer, but I have a suspicion...

I understand the intention behind the rule that members of a team must wear the same "uniform", in order to give officials the best chance to score the meet correctly. It's not like we're talking a team sport where it's 2 teams in contrasting uniforms competing against each other, all meets with more than a couple teams are going to have schools with similar uniforms. I get that part of it. I even understand why if you've got a t-shirt, long sleeve shirt, tights, compression shorts, whatever under your XC uniform and it's showing that you want everyone from a school to have the same appearance so that the course judges, finish line judges, etc can make the calls they need to officiate the race. But stitching on your under shorts-are you kidding me?

rtjfg wrote:

that was a vile awful decision. if i was the coach who won based on that decision i would be embarrassed to even touch the trophy. there is no way i'd accept it, or allow my team to call themselves the winners.

I agree it was awful. I really felt for the kid who happened to be wearing the black comp. shorts. From even a short distance away, 99% of the spectators or competitors could not detect anything awry. Who to blame? Probably the coach who should have noticed the slight difference, and he should be aware of the state league rules. However, at those kind of big meets, there is a lot of pressure and sometimes you don't notice something like that. (Dark navy blue and black do not seem very different to the casual observer.) But I really felt badly for the DQ'd team and the individual. I would like to think that it was an official's observation rather than another coach's, but who knows. As for the official winning team, I'm sure their victory felt tainted. Wasn't their fault, but they clearly did not win. You hate to see decisions like that determine the outcome of races, especially at the HS level.

By the way, the NCAA track/XC rule book removed the term "identical" when talking about uniforms. Now it just syas that uniforms must identify one as a member of a team through color, design, logo. You still need to wear the same color undergarments. Common sense prevails for once...

You always have to wonder when one these situations pops up. Did an opposing team coach notice the "infraction" and bring it to the attention of an official? At that point he may have his/her hands tied by the very existence of the rule. There is always someone out there that knows the rules and would be willing to "take" a win by means of a trivial DQ.

Vile indeed.Who are these people who write rules about shorts' stitching? Kafkaesque!

rtjfg wrote:

that was a vile awful decision. if i was the coach who won based on that decision i would be embarrassed to even touch the trophy. there is no way i'd accept it, or allow my team to call themselves the winners.

That is a picture of the "stitching in question". I cropped out everything else to protect the privacy of the runner.

Yes I do understand its tiny and hard to see...exactly the point.

Inane...

The old, "rules are rules" saw is used by cowards who are too fearful to exercise some judgment, and so take refuge behind procedure.

This happens in the workplace as well.

- What if cops started enforcing EVERY infraction they witnessed?

- What if the IRS pursued EVERY discrepancy on tax returns?

The world would grind to a halt. So the people who create the rules delegate this thing called, "discretion" and assume (in the case of MD, perhaps wrongly), that the people implementing the rules have, "common sense".

No reasonable person thinks a CHILD should be DQed for a purchase decision made months before. Race day - its GD cold, put something on to stay warm.

This is the fault of the race officials who left their balls at home, and were unable to make a difficult decision. Its so much easier to read the rule book, and no matter how stupid it is, abdicate any and all responsibility for what is "reasonable".

Here is todays editorial in the Baltimore Sun.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/ed.crosscountrypreview1028,0,7869421.story

Email the author and tell him your thoughts. Baltimore has a long history of crummy officials in track. I was disqualified in 1978 on a technicality and I am still mad about it.

Hereford High has a great history of cross country. They deserved this win.

They will show them at regionals. Even though a county title would have been sooo much sweeter.

editorial is thoughtful and classy. no name calling or words that rhyme with sprunt. completely rotten, vile, despicable thing to do to a young guy who worked VERY VERY hard to get that spot. others on this thread said it better without resorting to profanity. what a shame. what a GD disgrace. this story brings back HS XC days ( 1980's for me ) when running was new and magical and a present. only to be sh*t on by some turd-face with a rule book, giving the turd-sandwich trophy with extra peanuts to a lesser team. rotten.

i understand the under armour rule the logo is too big but however in NCAA the nike is permissiable maybe hs decided to just take out all logos on undergarments so the rule isn't confusing by saying it has to be a certain dimension, they should just say all logos but maybe that is not what the rule means maybe it is meaning stiching to imply they are wearing underware idk i believe though that the rule was misinterperted and the shorts should be legal because the only problem was a log what are you supposed to do tear off the logo wear them inside out?

It takes more courage to follow rules when they don't make sense. if everyone gets to pick and choose what rules to follow then why not just let everyone just pick the distance they want to run? Whoever finishes first will be the runner?

How about, "I didn't feel like running all the way around the flag?" Or "Everyone else is(n't) doing it!"

Grow up and deal with it. There's more important things in life than a county XC championship.

llort_vbo wrote:

It takes more courage to follow rules when they don't make sense.

that is patently FALSE.

How about adults exercising some judgment and common sense, rather than behaving like apparatchiks trying to preserve their sinecure.

the official makes the call (not the athlete, not the coach)...so make a reasonable call rather than hiding behind the rule book.

...gutless....