Should I quit my D1 XC/Track team in order to train myself???

That's what college running is about; intensity. It's hard. People get hurt all the time. You either adapt to it, grow stronger or quit.

Considering that those 12 guys are 19 yrs old (freshman) and you run 16/32 in HS and the 5k a lot more in college, both indoors and out, you guys suck.

It isn't the coaches fault, unless you have Eddy Lee's coach (and I know you don't because he would have 15 out of 18 VO2max days).

In HS I would usually run my first indoor meet and my first outdoor meet about the same time that I ran 3200m for the yr before. AS a freshman, you should still be there, after that your progress will level off and improvement will have a shallower slope.

Anyway, as someone else pointed out, it looks like your HS pr is from XC and this 15:46 is from track. The 15:46 is actually a little progress for a 9:05 3k runner.

Whatever, you seem to have a response/answer for every bit of advice you get. That isn't how it works, you asked for advice, we didn't ask you what you thought. We don't care if you don't agree with are take on it, we aren't quitting the team.

You have been given some solid advice (especially about missing all the good stuff on a team) on here. Take the summer to train yourself, see if you come on strong in September and enjoy it more. If you don't, quit.

Well my advice is to stick with it. There are a lot of benefits that have already been outlined about sticking with a college team that you forefit by running alone.

I can promise you that every coach in America has put together a stupid workout sequence, or done something else questionable, and likely on multiple occassions. However

he's got to manage 15, 20, or however many athletes. You just can't perfect individualized training in a team setting, so it's one of the trade-offs you need to accept.

Trust me, I thought my coach was a step short of the anti-christ when I was #20 on the XC roster as a frosh, buy my overanalysis of his workouts and his questionable coaching methods took a back seat when I bit the bullet, trusted him, and worked my way into the top 5 as a senior.

You've got a lot to think about in terms of what's important to you and the thoughts/advice you've been given (with most of it being good advice).

You could always transfer to a different school where you think you can get coaching that will work better for you and that has the major you're studying. You'll make friends on any team you are a part of.

Or you could stay where you are. Have you ever taken the time to speak with your coach about your concerns? If you come across the right way (don't put him on the defensive, tell him how horrible the training is or he is), you can have a very good conversation that just might put you both on the same page. Come in prepared with your thoughts and prepared for him to disagree with you. Even if it doesn't turn out well, at least you tried. Better to talk with him then to never bring it up. A lot of athletes don't think they can talk to their coach, but if you don't try, nothing's gonna change and he might surprise you (or not, but then who cares?).

Like some others mentioned, the transition from HS to college is huge. You're following training that your body is not yet used to and you're not seeing the results you want. I do not agree that you should be racing in practices by any means and it may not work best for you to be doing so many workouts. However, maybe your body will grow to be able to handle all of that and you will end up doing something great.

Again, talk with your coach about it. Give him the opportunity to hear you and respond. After that, you'll have all the info you need in order to make your decision.

Best to you.

You're a p*ssy. Leave your team. They don't need you.

try switching college? that seems to work with some runners? also out of curiosity what college are you currently attending? is it one of the pac-10?

Switch to a different college?

Liberty Hound wrote:

However, he encourages us to compete in the workouts, and if someone takes it out hard or cuts the rest short he will be pissed at you if you don’t keep up/start your next rep. I haven’t been a puss about it, but its just beyond me that he’s fine with leaving teammates behind in training if someone takes the liberty of wanting to show off and race a workout, and then go on to BOMB in most of their races. The culture has become so cutthroat that it is more accepted to run your workouts like races to beat your teammates than it is to perform up to your potential in races.

This is ridiculous. So if someone alters the training of their own accord he's annoyed if you don't go with the altered version! Cutting rest short defeats the point. The whole point should be doing well in races.

I think you should find a different team. I'm not sure how the system works in the USA but are there club teams with people of a good standard?

One thing any coach should be asking after a session is 'how do you feel' Coaching should be a 2 way thing

Have you tried speaking to you coach 1 to 1 and expressing your concerns.

If you have done that without success, you could do as others say and work around him. If he is pushing you to go faster on reps just ignore him

Training on your own is a lot harder than in a group which is the main element there you would be missing out on. then you would be missing the competitions

As a coach I've had problems with other coaches myself. They don't listen to their athletes. One girl at my club was a great middle distance prospect. The other coaches didn't seem to notice this and kept giving out long distance sessions. She left that group and is now training with the sprinters!

When I was training as a coach, with a qualified I mentioned one session was not so good because I wasn't able to call out the times for the runners. His reply "what do they need to know their times for"!

I would stick with it at the moment as you are so far in. Then find a coach/group to train with - or do you own thing entirely- when you graduate

Good luck with your running

Here we go again... wrote:

Your 15:40 was on a short course, I'm sorry to break the news to you. A true 15:40 guy runs a hell of a lot faster than 4:31/9:50 (rough conversion) on the track. You'd almost have to split 9:05 to hit 15:40.

I may be way off but I've seen this SOOO many times...

high schooler runs fast XC time on what they think is a 5k course, thinks he's all world, go to college where they actually have to run legit courses, "all world stud" can't replicate the times he ran on that 4800 meter long cross country course. DOesn't want to admit he's not as good as he thinks he was/ran on a short course, so externalizes the blame...often the coach.

I don't mean to be such a prick, but your story just seems like one I've seen about 5,000 other times.

Really? You've heard that story 5,000 other times? You sure it wasn't more like 4,800?

hence the "about"

What are your goals? What kind of runner do you see yourself developing into? Are you going to start training on your own so you can make the world xc team? Do you want to go to the Olympics?

Being on a D1 cross country and track team is a great accomplishment and it is something you should be proud of. It is probably also the highest level of competition you will ever get a chance to participate in.

If you stay on the team and improve you could actually help your team - maybe score some points at a conference meet.

Later in life no one will care whether your PR is 30 seconds faster. You will just deprive yourself of the great opportunity to be on a collegiate team if you leave.

I recommend trying to communicate your feelings to the coach about the intensity of the workouts. Most coaches are open to talks with their athletes. Try not to be too aggressive while doing so, since it could lead to an argument or a bad relationship between the two of you. While you're talking to him, make some suggestions, such as some workout ideas for the group you particularly train with that you think would best reach their potential. Hopefully, he'll be receptive and agree to this.

While I am empathize with your situation I would say that 9 times out 10 training on your own will not get you where you want to be no matter how hard and determined you are. I would keep on keeping on in that system because the benefits you get from all of the ammenities of a team plus the huge and most important benefit of training with a group of similar people is simply to big of a thing to pass up. Lets put it this way, I would much rather do workouts with 3 guys 20 seconds slower than me in the 3k than do workouts on my own completely... at first it is not bad but soon enough you find yourself not getting where you want to be.

If I were you I would talk to the other guys you think have your mentality... see what they think and maybe come to some kind of understanding with each other about how you are going to train and try to use that mentality to adapt the coachs workouts into something a bit more up your alley.

I was lucky that when I encountered a terrible coach(s) in university they ended leaving and getting replaced by the single greatest coach I have ever had who rehabilated my career. However, looking back on it, I think I would have stuck it out with the team irregarless.

Plus, in the summers you can do whatever you think you need to do.

Here we go again... wrote:

Your 15:40 was on a short course, I'm sorry to break the news to you. A true 15:40 guy runs a hell of a lot faster than 4:31/9:50 (rough conversion) on the track. You'd almost have to split 9:05 to hit 15:40.

Not true, I ran almost exactly these same times within 3 months during college (4:33 and 9:03 indoors then 15:38 outdoors). They are also almost the exact same VDOT according to Daniels. Most people just probably have better endurance than you. By the way, you'd split 9:16 to hit 15:40.

I totally agree with you Spacecataz with both posting listing the benefits of being on a team.

The actual post is interesting, when I went to College the assistant coach talked me into running CC. I never ran CC in HS but I did run track. Before I made that decision I observed the team, talked with the some of the guys on it, and then choose to be a part of the team. I sucked my first year of CC, I was the last guy when we ran easy runs, workouts made me look worse. The team would always circle back to pick up everyone after a rep, at times I wondered what I was doing out there and yes I wanted to quit, but I didn't!

Over the next summer I did my homework "mileage" and I wasn't to far behind the top guys. The better I got, the faster I ran, the more I believed in the coach, the total opposite of blind faith. But after that year, if my coach told me to run through a wall I would that's how much I believed in what he was doing.

If you coach is such a great recruiter did you get a chance to talk with any of his athletes before you decided to go there? My last 2 years in college I talked to parents and potential teammate when they would come for visits and I would tell them about the coaches and the coaching.

Two quick points: First, you have plenty of control over how hard you go in workouts. No one, including your coach, can see inside your mind to discover whether you're at 7/10 or 9.5/10 on the intensity meter. Run the workouts at an intensity that will allow you to stay healthy, and adjust your mileage appropriately too. If you're as motivated and self-aware as you claim, it won't be a problem to resist the external pressure (from coach and teammates) to race workouts.

Second: your story is very, very familiar. Thousands of kids go through this every year -- especially smart kids who like to analyze what they're doing. That being said, for a whole bunch of different reasons, quitting the team almost never results in a positive outcome. (Sure, you trained yourself in HS and had success -- during a time when your body was developing so rapidly that you would have gotten faster even if you didn't train at all. Suffice to say that it's easy to do that for a year or two, and very hard to maintain.)

I was certainly one of those kids -- I came from a fantastic high school program and went to a university with an ex-sprint coach who was a complete moron. I got 15 seconds slower over 1500m in my first year, which made me resist his training and half-ass his workouts in second year, which made me even worse. I didn't quit the team for the same reasons you don't want to (teammates), and in third year, I decided that it would be better to go 100% on a crappy training regimen than constantly half-ass it trying to alter it to something I thought was more appropriate. To my complete surprise, I ran 3:44 that spring, a 17-second PR.

That didn't change my opinion of my coach, or of his crappy training program. But it taught me something I still believe strongly: the precise details of workouts are a very minor component of running success. Working hard (which you can control), staying healthy (which you can control) and attitude (which you can control) are the keys.

spacecataz wrote: Sorry, but that's how it is. You were probably a stud in high school, but now you're a back of the packer at your school and it's a hard thing to swallow. Not all coaches are hand holders. You would probably hate being coached by guys like Centrowitz. You wouldn't even make it through a workout without him calling you a p***y ten times.

Yeah, why does it seem the most vocal coaches are the least elite. (Centro, Torpey, McDonough)

I think you need to suck it up. If you don't like the mileage, lie to your coach. Do his workouts.

Just got done with school and I can probably describe you to a t.

You love the sport, which is good, but sometimes you feel that you have the best system. You read Daniels religiously and have kept a log for the past 10 years. You train great and workout great, but race like shit.

And you blame your coach....

dude, you are a headcase.

being flaky is a liability to your team.

if you really care about your teammates, then quit. your team deserves a teammate who commits to the "program" 100%. anybody else is just a headcase. dead weight.