Ryan Hall to go for Sub 4?

king of the pile? wrote:

eh.. wrote:

Hall is a world class marathoner. He will never be a world class 10k runner.

Tergat:7:28,12:49,26:28

Haile:7:25,12:39,26:22

Wanjiru:26:4x

Abderrahim Goumri:7:32 and 12:50

so yea, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that is the dumbest post on letsrun, ever.

king of the pile, you, sir, are an imbecile. The post doesn't claim that marathon and 10k glory are mutually exclusive, rather that Hall as an individual will never be great at the 10k. Reading comprehension people, reading comprehension.

I think he could definately compete with the best US athletes, like Rupp, Fam, Ritz, however, I don't think he is a world class 10k guy, which nowadays, is probably sub-27:20.[/quote]

You really don't think Hall could break 27:20? I think he has the best shot at the AR this summer if he makes a serious attempt at it.

About the sub 2:10 and sub 4:00 combo. How many people have done it in reverse order so to speak. I would bet that everyone who has done it has broken the mile barrier first.

13.5 is pretty bad...even for a marathoner

For a stride? I'm pretty sure he didn't get down in blocks and race a 100.

he averaged 28:20 10k for a half marathon, so you would think that he could run a good 10k if he trained for it. 13.5 100m strides and he's proud of that? that's 54 second 400m pace! if he were running 54 second 400 repeats, I would be impressed. he just doesn't have the great speed needed for a championship 5k/10k runner, but you would figure that he should go faster at 10k than nenow.

eojtlc wrote:

I think he could definately compete with the best US athletes, like Rupp, Fam, Ritz, however, I don't think he is a world class 10k guy, which nowadays, is probably sub-27:20.

You really don't think Hall could break 27:20? I think he has the best shot at the AR this summer if he makes a serious attempt at it.

About the sub 2:10 and sub 4:00 combo. How many people have done it in reverse order so to speak. I would bet that everyone who has done it has broken the mile barrier first.[/quote]

Let me back up; YES, I think Hall could run under 27:20x and even have a shot a the American record if he really trained for it, but at the this point, I think everything outside of the marathon is a novelity No disrespect to Meb, but the U.S. 10K record is weak compared to the 5k and the marathon. I think if you lined up the best college right now in a serious 10k, they would a good shot at the record.

Guys who did take a shot at running fast 10Ks, like Ritz, Salazar, Meb, Abdi, etc., really were not track guys, at the end of the day, they were road races. These guys could barely run a 4 minute mile, Fam has decent track credentials and I thought he would break the records; perhaps he should have went for it a couple of years ago.

Kennedy, Teg, Lagat and even Goucher could have run faster than the record if they had taken a serious shot at it.

Right, but I think you're reading into this a little bit too much. From what I read he went for a run with Deena, did a few strides, timed on of them in 13.5, and was pleased that he was ready to start training for a mile. He wasn't doing an interval workout. He wasn't doing a time trial. When I do strides I try to do them at roughly 800 effort. But I guess you just blast them all out? You think he should be doing 400 repeats at 54 less than a month after racing Boston?

Hall is seeing that a lot of top marathons are being won with really fast finishes, even sprints to line. Aside from being a cool distinction, training for and achieving a sub 4 mile will make him a better marathoner in the future. I will be excited to watch him try to break 4 but I am really looking forward to what he does after.

TrackCoach wrote:

I think he could definately compete with the best US athletes, like Rupp, Fam, Ritz, however, I don't think he is a world class 10k guy, which nowadays, is probably sub-27:20.

Careful.

I made an arguement that Rupp would most likely run in the 27:10 to 27:10 range on Rupp's career 10K PR thread and was taken to task because many want to believe he can run under 27 minutes and possibly 26:40. Ryan has waaay more strength than Rupp and his PRs at shorter distances are just as good give or take a couple of seconds. I think Ryan is very capable of running sub 27:20 for 10K.

I think the point of spending the summer/fall going after a sub 4 mile is to not only give his body a break from the rigors of marathon training, but to give his mind a break from the pressures hes been under snce his debut (or half marathon debut probably)

he could run the 10000 and could definitly compete with the top americans (I doubt hes be under the AR but could probably get close to 27:20 and be in the hunt with rupp, ritz, and abdi

however he may just want to take a season off, work on some speed, drop his mileage, and go for a historic barrier that he hasnt achieved before (despite coming extremely close in hs) in an event that he knows that ell never be really world class in and success in doesnt really affect his marathon performance...aka hes just doing this for fun

i dont know if hell attempt a fast 10000 this summer and if he does it will be exciting but if he doesnt its simply because he needed a break, not because he "cant compete" or anything

also, it is not a given that if he goes sub 4 he can run a great 10000 at that time, at this point i doubt hall can get under 4 without some pretty mile specifc training, which is not 10000 specific training, being in shape to run a sub 4 mile while training for it and having the physical ability to run a fast marathon (after a full marathon buildup) does not necessitate that hes ready to run well at all the distances in between (though I feel he would be close to 13:10, 27:20 if training for the longer track distances)

College Guy wrote:

Is it still only John L. Parker, Jr.'s, magic trio of Rod Dixon, Ken Martin, and Geoff Smith who have gone sub-2:10 and sub-4:00?

When Parker said that neither Dixon, Martin nor Smith had run under 2:10, and only Dixon had broken 4:00

Ryan did a workout - before Boston - at altitude where he started at 13:21 (5k) pace and still hung on for a good tempo session. After which, he ran some hills. Then after that, he ran 2 miles in 9:00.

Yea, the kid can run sub 27:00 - no doubt. A 59:xx half marathoner is capable of going sub 27 for 10k. The question is then can two white men go sub 27 in the same year? (Rupp and Hall).

souse wrote:

he averaged 28:20 10k for a half marathon, so you would think that he could run a good 10k if he trained for it. 13.5 100m strides and he's proud of that? that's 54 second 400m pace! if he were running 54 second 400 repeats, I would be impressed. he just doesn't have the great speed needed for a championship 5k/10k runner, but you would figure that he should go faster at 10k than nenow.

Hall ran 1:51 + in the 800 in HS. If he works on speed he's certainly capable of having the speed necessary to run faster than Nenow. He's already far stronger.

one of his feeds said he's starting his training for a fall marathon, so I'm not sure how this fits with the sub-4...

TrackCoach wrote:

...the U.S. 10K record is weak compared to the 5k and the marathon. I think if you lined up the best college right now in a serious 10k...

I've seen this statement numerous times on the Letsrun forums and I think it's ridiculous. The US 10k record was held by Nenow for 15 years and now Meb has held it for 8 more. The record has come down a grand total of 7 seconds in 22 years and only 11 seconds since Alberto Salazar's ran of 27:24 in 1982. That's 14 seconds in 27 years.

The US 10k record is only weak as compared to the World record, but saying that "Kennedy, Teg, Lagat and even Goucher" would have run faster if they had only taken a shot at it is a big reach. I'm not saying that they wouldn't have, certainly Kennedy at his prime would have had a strong shot at it, but I'm not so sure that Goucher ever had the strength for it and I'm not so sure Lagat has had it in him since he became an American. Who knows about Teg, the guy has exactly been a model of consistency.

edumacator wrote:

Right, but I think you're reading into this a little bit too much. From what I read he went for a run with Deena, did a few strides, timed on of them in 13.5, and was pleased that he was ready to start training for a mile. He wasn't doing an interval workout. He wasn't doing a time trial. When I do strides I try to do them at roughly 800 effort. But I guess you just blast them all out? You think he should be doing 400 repeats at 54 less than a month after racing Boston?

Well well well. Edumacator says: "...timed on of them..." Proof you are a dolt. Don't you know how to spell a simple word like one?

Error'''''s suck, no?

are you lance wolfsmith?

thats so weird. he went 4:02 for 1600 in high school, yet he is struggling to beat 4.

no i am on lance wolfsmith, though I wish I did have a cool name like that in real life.

kjhkjh wrote:

thats so weird. he went 4:02 for 1600 in high school, yet he is struggling to beat 4.

He went 3:42 in the 1500 in hs. That's a 4:00 flat mile. But I don't think he is "struggling to beat 4" now or in recent years, he just hasn't tried to do it, and has focused on the marathon.