Kaki 1;43.09

Why does the front page say Kaki was "wire to wire" when he followed a rabbit for the first 600?

Deanouk, I think you and the other guy got mixed up. I think the guy who responded to you the first time was making fun of all the PC sissies here who fall all over each other to kiss the tail of anyone who isn't white, and then look like they're trying to get a pat on the head for being as anti-white as possible. That Ngeny was a fraud is known on the circuit, just like Komen was back in the 90's. There are a lot of great African runners, but there is some politics going on when it comes to letting some of them get away with doping. I think with Ramzi getting busted, they'll actually let certain E. Africans and their management get away with more doping.

Thats what I thought originally!

It's a sad state of affairs if what you say comes to pass, and I fear there is a lot of truth in what you say.

Cheers.

you're full of it if you think that anyone in WADA gives a rat's ass if a Kenyan or Ethiopian is caught doping. Those two countries may have had some dopers in the EPO era and maybe now, but they dominate in general because they have large, large numbers of high level participants who will work as hard as it takes at altitude on soft surfaces, driven by money and competition to get somewhere. The countries where only the women and the weight throwers are stars (all the Eastern bloc nations) are the ones where generalized suspicion is warranted. And then Morocco and former Moroccans have had a lot of dopers in the distances in the past ten years, so a Ramzi or Mourhit is going to warrant suspicion. Last year, Kaki probably just peaked really early after a stellar indoor and early outdoor campaign and no doubt he couldn't get the peak back because he was just doing speedwork and was too far away from his base.

Right, the IAAF doesn't want to actually increase sponsorship revenue or anything. Maybe you could tell us which Hollywood studio they used to film the Apollo 11 landing.

beanous wrote:

Deanouk, I think you and the other guy got mixed up. I think the guy who responded to you the first time was making fun of all the PC sissies here who fall all over each other to kiss the tail of anyone who isn't white, and then look like they're trying to get a pat on the head for being as anti-white as possible. That Ngeny was a fraud is known on the circuit, just like Komen was back in the 90's. There are a lot of great African runners, but there is some politics going on when it comes to letting some of them get away with doping. I think with Ramzi getting busted, they'll actually let certain E. Africans and their management get away with more doping.

for a teenager to run 1'42 isn't incredible - i remember watching a 19y ole ben koech run 1'43.17 back in '94 in rieti & he did it with such ease that he looked capable of low-1'42 imminently & superstar status - it didn't pan out

the shock has been that we haven't had a helluva lot more africans not running 1'42

the list of 1'42 guys contains a lot of names who weren't particularly "frightening" - koskei, onyancha, nduriri, kimutai, yiampoy, tellez, etc

if guys like these coud chase kip around into 1'42s & superstars like ereng & konchellah coudn't indicates some poor time-chasing - pacing foremost

you can count on fingers of 1 hand number of times where guy goes thru in 50s & really tries to keep the pace going to 600 in 1'16

usually they drift out to 1'17.5+ & then try to charge the last 200 for usually nothing better than 1'44 - it's not the way to run a 1'42

we've recently seen guys like kaki, greg konchellah & borza actually trying to keep going hard to 600 & hang on & these guys are being rewarded with 1'42s

now they've got the right mindset for the race, i'd expect a few others joining them in the 1'42

I don't think its shocking that more guys haven't run 1:42 at all.

The 800m is a relatively short race and doesn't require well planned pacemaking like the 1500 or 5000m. There are fewer variables to prevent well paced races going wrong, and it's an event that appears on almost every meet.

I just think its a bloody amazing time to run and requires specialised training and total commitment.

Surely everyone and their dog were trying to break Coe's record after it had lasted a certain length of time? The longer a record stands for, the more determined people are to beat it.

Interestingly, of the names you mention, Onyancha, Nduriri, Kimutai and Tellez all run their pbs in the late '90's (No EPO test) and Yiampoy ran his in 2002. Only Koskei's performance was in a different era. Think he had a great pacemaker, Cruz, pulling him along to his 1:42. But the number of guys that, as you say were pretty unforgettable, & were running 1:42's in the late '90's is rather odd.

yiampoy, muladazi, bungei & nduwimana have all run 1'42 in the '00s...

Yes, but they weren't the names you originally mentioned (apart from Yiampoy).

ventolin wrote:

you can count on fingers of 1 hand number of times where guy goes thru in 50s & really tries to keep the pace going to 600 in 1'16

usually they drift out to 1'17.5+ & then try to charge the last 200 for usually nothing better than 1'44 - it's not the way to run a 1'42

we've recently seen guys like kaki, greg konchellah & borza actually trying to keep going hard to 600 & hang on & these guys are being rewarded with 1'42s

now they've got the right mindset for the race, i'd expect a few others joining them in the 1'42

Another (not) brilliant analysis by vent. So 800 guys have finally figured out that the 3rd 200 is important, and are now deciding to work that 200??? wow, amazing. How did they figure out that out? What took so long? Vent, was it YOU who clued them in that the 3rd 200 mattered? What a genius. (and Borza runs an even pace. Others have done this also. It is nothing new)

How about this vent: Kaki is capable of running the 3rd 200 harder than most because he is fit enough to do it. End of story. Mindset my ass.....

(and of course some runners in the past were caught up in trying to run the fist 400 too hard, which was not smart. But there is no new "mindset" explaining kaki or anyone else's recent fast 800 times)

ventolin wrote:

you can count on fingers of 1 hand number of times where guy goes thru in 50s & really tries to keep the pace going to 600 in 1'16

usually they drift out to 1'17.5+ & then try to charge the last 200 for usually nothing better than 1'44 - it's not the way to run a 1'42

So by running 1.5-2 seconds faster in the 3rd 200 will magically let them run 2 seconds faster overall? Where does the extra enery come from? How is it that they are somehow able to complete the last 200m at the same or faster pace (1:16-->1:42=26 vs 1:17.5-->1:44 26.5) Do they get a boost in the last 200m for showing courage in the 3rd 200m? I agree that they lose the most time in the 3rd 200m and that is where improvements may come from, but your analysis is rediculous (as always)

grandslam wrote:

Yes, but they weren't the names you originally mentioned (apart from Yiampoy).

they are all same "calibre" as names originally mentioned ( with bungster slightly better as he's actually gone < 1'42.5 )

eh ?

greg konchellach has spent a career running like the herd with fast 1st lap & then meandering between 400 - 600m & then trying to kick the last 200 & all it got him in a career uptil '08 was 1'43.11 in '04

last year, he made a big effort in that monaco race & got thru 600m in a decent time & held on for a 1'42.79 - a great reward ( & he may have run this way to get as big a gap as possible over borza to 600m to give him too much to haul back )

rest of his season he stuck to his usual lazy running of not pushing the 400 - 600m & best was 1'44.18

he is a very talented guy, but not much moreso than rest of the africans & it showed what he & the others can do when they actually run this race properly - bite the bullet to keep it going to 600m in 76 - 77 & try & hold on, rather than kick off 78s

sexless zatopek wrote:

doped to the gills - let's see if he can hang on better than he did last year!

Rough translation:

"Waaaaah! The Africans are more talented and work harder than we do! Waaaah! . . . Waaah! . . . sob . . . sob . . . sniffle . . . I want my Playstation2! . . . Waaah! . . . "

I'm confused, I thought this was about the race not about people doping.

Why don't we change the name from LetsRun to MostlyDoubt and just complain all day about how we can't afford quality doping like these third world africans.

ventolin wrote:

1'43.11 in '04

last year, he made a big effort in that monaco race & got thru 600m in a decent time & held on for a 1'42.79

So he pred by .3 seconds and you are making a big dewal about it?

on the runs wrote:

Right, the IAAF doesn't want to actually increase sponsorship revenue or anything. Maybe you could tell us which Hollywood studio they used to film the Apollo 11 landing.

Why are so many people so stupid as to think all things political are about money? Ah, another of the sheeple I'm afraid. Another who never learned to think for himself. Why is the US government flooding the US with third worlders who have no education, no marketable skills - and - don't care about education or learning, not even for their anchor babies? Oh, sure. Just more conspiracy bunk. Now go bend over for your soc professor.

Are you f***ing joking? That's what you've got? I'm supposed to take you seriously?

Let's see: if you are a non-US citizen and you want to come to live and work in the US you need a f***ing visa. In order to get such a visa you need to either have an immediately family member who is a US citizen apply on your behalf, or have some legitimate business or job skills to warrant your admission into the US. In the case of job skills, Customs and Immigration need evidence that the incomming foreigner isn't taking a job for which their are plenty of qualified Americans. Of course, the US let's in plenty of non-qualified immigrants as amnesty cases BUT these people aren't brought to the US just so they can be put on the dole. They end up working and paying taxes and in doing so they add to the US economy and the US government's income.

What you're suggesting is that the IAAF doesn't want money, that they don't want to grow their sponsorship base or increase media exposure, because everyone knows that the lack of competitive Americans and Europeans in middle and long distance races is soffocating the opportunities to grow the sport in those areas that have the money to fund it.

So how does your analogy apply in this case?

we are still in the EPO era:) When times are getting slower,

is it history.