complaining about a coach

The "spooning" comment is definitely off limits.

Any of the Coaches here think otherwise?

Weird.

Well, I agree with the poster who said that complaining to the AD might result in the school just cutting cross country altogether.

It's weird, being a cross country coach is such a desirable job, you'd think that with such high demand and such little supply, that every head coach at a college would at least be semi-normal.

You are 100 percent right and should do something about this now.

I'm in my 60's and when I was in high school there was a band director who had it out for me, who knows why. But he would take it upon himself to try and embarrass me in front of everyone and then get pissed off when it didn't work. He gave me an F one quarter because I went on a scheduled track trip instead of practicing with a marching band on a weekend, and I wasn't even in marching band. Another time he put a cigarette butt in the mouthpiece of my trumpet. There was a lot of other crap that went on with him. I was an innocent kid and didn't know what to make of it, plus my dad was abusive so I figured that no one would stand up for me. My mom says why didn't I tell her and she would have raised hell, but she never raised hell with my dad.

If I was you I would so something about this right now. I would contact your teammate and find out what happened. If the AD brushed her/him off then go to the President, as someone else mentioned earlier. Personally I've never had much use for most AD's, though some of them do a good job. You'll probably have more success with the President. Also perhaps there are some student advocate departments.

It is sad there are other coaches like him, and that some of them would even have the audacity to post on this thread. They should have been fired from their jobs and out of coaching a long time ago. The coach who has been harassing your team needs to be fired on the spot. Get together with the team and make sure everyone keeps their doors locked at all times. He has no business checking people in bed! Definitely get together with the team and stop putting up with his crap and harassment.

some advice wrote:

For bed checks, yes, at times he’ll go around the dorms to see if were in our rooms. Were suppose to keep our rooms unlock for him to look in and see. If he doesn’t do it, he makes some other runners on the team do it. For me I have a roommate who isn’t an athlete so for his privacy I keep my door locked because I don’t want some wacko coming in my room at night and either stealing something or doing something weird while my roommate and I are asleep. Plus my roommate at times doesn't go to bed right at midnight so that's unfair for him.

Man, you are starting out railing against the world pretty young. If you keep it up, you won't last to your 40's becuase you will stress yourself out. Pick your battles, and always, always ask yourself if this is the day, and is this the hill? That should bring things into perspective.

Waaaaa, someone called me spoiled..... Waaaaa!

Hey listen up guy. You started your complaints with his rules so obviously you think that is the biggest problem. To bad his rules don't seem that outlandish to me. Every college football team I know has similar rules (curfew). If you don't like the rules you don't have to be on the team. Why do you need to be out past mindnight anyways, especially during the season?

Of course sexual comments and suggestions are not OK. But since none of was there and you are little sketchy on the details its hard for anyone of us to say what context it was used in. Since no one went to the AD or if anyone did he didn't think it merited investigation I question whether its as black and white as you are saying.

But mainly I think you have a problem with his rules as this how you started the thread and list of complaints and now are just trying to find other stuff to help your case againts the coach. Teams of young men and women need rules and its up to the coach to decide how many and what they are. If you don't like them then you don't have to be on the team and and you'll be free of the rules. But is you want the $20k scholarship every year i suggest you get use to living with some rules and being thankful for the opportunioty to get a free education and traveling around running some track meets.

You spoiled brat!

some advice wrote:

-He says some inappropriate things (example: in a joking way, when I and a few of my teammates ran at nationals he said how he hasn’t been with his wife for a few days and was thinking of “spooning” one of our athletes and when he talks about life lessons, he always brings something up about having sex with his wife)

This is over the line. Get a copy of your school's sexual harassment policy. They certainly have one.

I'm quite confident that the policy would classify the behavior above as creating a "Hostile Environment". It will also indicate who you should report this behavior to, which you should do. The school will then have a legal responsibility to investigate.

Document, document, document.... The sexual stuff will get him canned very fast. ADs don't care that much about XC coaches winning the big meet or anything, but if you screw up and expose the school to bad stuff you can kiss it good bye.

There are some weird folks that get hired into coaching positions. I think that's especially true in the NAIA and small low paying schools. The first coach I had sounds a lot like this guy. He was a weird-o, social reject, eventully canned for some inapporpriate talk to one of the female runners and he allowed drinking on the track bus.

Wow, I can't believe people are supporting a curfew/bed checks. You never stay out past 12 on weekends? Really?

Maybe the coach is a creep and should be fired. That is for the AD to determine but I think its sad for this kid to come out on this message board and bitch about having to follow rules as part of his $20k scholarship and then try and tack on other arguements when he gets called on it.

Sexual harassement is not tolerable at all but either is whinny kids who drive out many from the profession of coaching simply because they can't stand dealing with the whinny self important brats.

Why would anyone go into coaching after coming on this board and seeing all sorts of athletes on here questioning and talking bad about their coaches on a public message board. The pay already sucks as it is and now you have to worry about all their decisions being publicly debated. Come on now.

Wow I don’t know what your problem is, but obviously you just want to bash me like no other. Dude, if you have no advice, get off this thread and stop the name calling. And you call yourself a coach? Wow, I thought your job was to help not bash. Guess I was wrong. I guess you get the enjoyment making fun of someone’s situation by calling them a spoiled brat and all. Wow, you’re really mature for your age. Get off this thread jerk.

some advice wrote:

Wow I don’t know what your problem is, but obviously you just want to bash me like no other. Dude, if you have no advice, get off this thread and stop the name calling. And you call yourself a coach? Wow, I thought your job was to help not bash. Guess I was wrong. I guess you get the enjoyment making fun of someone’s situation by calling them a spoiled brat and all. Wow, you’re really mature for your age. Get off this thread jerk.

Do you actually WANT to be called out on your original post? If so, I'm your huckleberry...I'll make you famous...

outlaw wrote:

here's an idea:

you may decide to put together a list of grievances, it would look something like this:

11/15/08: sexual innuendo issued towards a teammate

3/10/09: told us he wants us to fail

something like that, i dont remember all the details. but make it clear and to the point.

review this with your teammates. Present it to him and tell him that you are looking for a leader, not a downer. If he doesn't change, then go to the AD with the same list, and his response to it.

This looks like the soundest advice so far. (Keep in mind that the coach may actually be trying to lighten the atmosphere, and choosing inappropriate ways to do so.) Having something *specific* that's *described neutrally* is the best way to avoid putting the coach immediately on the defensive.

To present a list like this, it might be best if your captain(s) did so, particularly if he/they have a good relationship with the coach. They could present it as a team consensus, rather than as the gripes of an individual or two.

I know that at one of the schools where I coached, students were not permitted to speak to the AD without their coach present. I actually think this is a pretty good way to proceed. In any case, as outlaw advised, be very careful about going to an AD--you might get a result very different from what you wanted. Make an honest effort to work *with* the coach first, before resorting to going to the AD (or college prez).

Here is some advice from a coach who has been on teams that have won 20 national titles (both as a head and assistant coach). Never complain about what you permit. You should always be a man and confront the coach first (whether you like him or not, he deserves that respect because of his authority over you). If that doesn't work, then You ask to meet with him and the Athletic Director together and not behind his back. Again, be a man and don't do things behind his back. If that doesn't work and it is bad enough to file sexual harrassment charges, then you have gone up the chain of command like you should. Obviously, the other option is to quit the team and find other things on campus to enjoy. I love track and field but it isn't everything in life. Maybe this will help, but you must be the better person (regardless of what you think of this coach) by going through the correct chanels. If you don't, you are only putting yourself in jeopardy.

He enacted a curfew on everyone on the team (be in your room at 12:00 midnight), this even goes for the weekends. Not only that, but he enacted bed-checks also.

This is a team rule. It may be arbitrary (I would never impose one on my team...away meets nonwithstanding) but it's a rule. And like it or not, he's doing it for your best interest.

6 A.M. for everyone if someone on the team screws up (example: accidentally late for practice, breaks curfews,

I like this one. Things like this help a team bond. And it also makes less work for the coach. If one athlete is late and making life hell for the rest of the team, you can bet the team will take care of it before the coach does.

He says some inappropriate things (example: in a joking way, when I and a few of my teammates ran at nationals he said how he hasn’t been with his wife for a few days and was thinking of “spooning” one of our athletes and when he talks about life lessons, he always brings something up about having sex with his wife)

This may be cause for dismissal. But you've been very vague in your descriptions of behavior. Anything can sound bad taken out of context.

Calls some runners out during our team meetings (example: saying how one person on the team screwed up or how one person didn’t do his job right or how he reads off our progress reports in front of everyone)

So he's honest and doesn't sugarcoat things. Look, if someone is underperforming, the rest of the team already knows it. Odds are, you

before practice, he talks for almost an hour before we can actually start running

So?

he wants us to tell him our problems or any issues we have with him, but makes sure that he’s the one who’s right and you’re the one wrong

Again, very vague. Since you already have a bone to pick with this guy it sounds like you're exaggerating things a bit.

blames us how he doesn’t see his family that much and how he doesn’t get paid enough and how no one gives him respect (funny how he complains about not seeing his family when he schedules meets over spring break where he should spend time with them)

I complain about my job too. If/when you leave school you will too. That doesn't mean he doesn't enjoy what he does. And spring break track trips are awesome: no school to get in the way of what's truly important! And if he's coaching NAIA, he's probably not getting much money. I would suspect your $20,000 scholarship is more than half his salary. How would you like to be the boss of spoiled kids who earn nearly as much as you for less work?

he’s said that he’s sorry when we run bad and says he’s made mistakes before when dealing with training

He recognizes mistakes. No coach is perfect. At least he's not so hardheaded as to blame it on you.

Look, you come off as very spoiled-sounding. The fact is, not everyone you meet in life is going to have the greatest personality. Some rules at your future employer will piss you off. But you've got to learn to pick your battles. If this guy has been coaching for any length of time, he's probably around for a reason.

I also agree you need to take it up the chain of command.

1. Captains

2. Coach

3. AD

4. Athletics liason

5. School officials (president)

Do not leapfrog any step. Captains should be your link to the coach. And definitely be a man and address the coach to his face when the time comes. Do not go behind his back to the AD or president.

I disagree with going to the coach, and going to the AD is probably not a good idea either. Maybe the AD is the same kind of coach and hired one of his buddies. If so, he's going to stifle the story, get you thrown off the team, and destroy your credibility. Consider if Sad Sack is an AD and you told your story to him.

College Presidents are held to a higher standard and, usually, not allowed to get away with such crap. There is no reason for you to endure step after step of harassment up the chain.

Being a man means not putting up with that shit. It means not letting the assholes of the world run their game on you, and making sure they're not being paid for harassing students in a college. And NO one has any authority over you as a coach. They are supposed to be guides for you through this phase of your life helping to prepare you for your future. What you do is always YOUR choice, and is always YOUR own decision to make.

I must have been fortunate in school as I always had good coaches and none of them were like that at all. Anyone who behaves like that coach, or who condones that type of behavior, has no business being in coaching.

J.R.,

That is one of the most immature things I've read on Letsrun, which is probably the kind of immature running websites. I'd venture a guess that you're a member of this new "entitlement" generation.

The first question a president will ask (well second after "How did you get into my office?") is "Did you try and work this out with the coach?" So the OP can lie and say he tried, which will come back to bite him in the ass when it's revealed he's lying, or he can man up and talk to the coach directly.

And the coach absolutely has authority over you. He's the coach. He's the head of the team. That doesn't mean you can't work with him, but ignoring him because he's "not an authority" isn't an option. Would you use the same kind of attitude in the workplace? "Oh, I don't feel like following those rules from HR...what I do is always my choice."

Wow, whats with all the authority lovers here? just because he's a coach and in a position of "power" doesn't mean that his behavior should go unquestioned. If he's really making sexually inappropriate comments like that, and your teammates are aware of it as well, i suggest you bring some of those mates with you to talk to him directly. If that doesn't change anything, go to the AD.

Sad sack of sickness seems like he's got quite a bit in common with the OP's coach.

Yes, listen to J.R. who is an idiot, and you will be off the team and without credibility. If you went over my head (of course I'm not one to tell inappropriate jokes), I would kick your butt to the curb immediately without question. Teachers and instructors are not even allowed to go the President of the University (they have to go through the head of their department, the dean, the vice president, etc.), so what makes any of you think a student has access to him or her. Every athlete that I have kicked off of my teams in the past was hugely mistaken when they thought they had the power.