Paula, Drugs and Suspicion

wejo wrote:I'll state it publicly. If paula radcliffe is busted for drugs I'm retiring from/quitting the sport. We may even shut down the website. I would no longer be able to believe any athlete at the top was clean so I would see no reason to continue.

I'd have to agree with you, Wejo, purely because of her willingness to have her samples frozen. I've never seen someone so willing to give body fluids to whoever wants them, but the "freeze my samples" stance clinches it. You can't ask for more than that.

Wouldn't it be nice to NOW have some frozen samples from guys who running out of their heads in the mid-90's when there was no EPO test available?

You don't get it, there can't be a test for the latest forms of blood boosting drugs, unless tehers a tester stnading theer witha apiss pot within an hour or two of the drug being used its always gonna be clear. Whats the big deal with frozen samples, it makes no difference, if the substance is flushed from the system in hours you could test next day and it would be clean. If you don't think this is the case I can assure you it is, there is a series of trials taking place at Oxford university into hypoxia and these latest drugs and the results are frightening, you just have to look at cycling, either the testing doesn't work or its corrupt.

Okay - get to the point. Do you think Paula is doing drugs or not? I don't.

How about BBC? What can you do ?Just prepare next theory to discredit her.Look at what you are doing.You turned out to be the ugliest .Caviling whatever she does.Your mom cries if she sees what you are doing...

Paula has the perfect body for a runner,she works extremely hard,and has great mental makeup.Why is it so hard to believe she is clean?Her performance this past weekend,was arguably the greatest feat in the history of the sport.

I actually think she is clean, I really do, I don't think she is doing anything that isn't within the rules at the moment. Though i do have concerns about other techniques such as intermitent hypoxia in an artificial enviroment which I have already discussed on this board, something which does not worry myself alone, the IOC is currently ploughing 10 million into reserach, Dr Jaque Rogge is aginst it and believes it is pushing training too far.(Radcliffe says she does not use the tent now but she is still featured on the tent manufacturers site saying how beneficial the tent has been to her training) I don't think she is the type to use EPO or anything of that nature but I think it is unreasonable to say that her improvements are not startling. I also think that there is a conspiracy in athletics to coat some athleets becasue of their geographic links, take Yegorova for example, outr own Mark Ricxhardson tested positive yet was always throughout his ban considered as being innocent, yet Yegorova who was technically innocent was hung drawn and quartered without a single word in her defence, this is the kind of hypocracy that annoys me. I think what we have is some athleets who are marketable, and teherfore valuable to the sport and there are those who are not so vauable and therefore are dispensable, Its a fallacy to think that money does not make our sports go round, and huge amounts. I also think its crazy to suggest that just because someobody makes a stance against drugs they are clean, thats just rubbish, I cannot think of any world class athleet who has said they did it, denial is always the case, look at the recent Steeplechase record, that was an incredible performnace and I said I thought Boulami was cheating, I was pilloried for my opinion and then look what happens. Its sad to say it but that is the situation our sport is in, its not clean and people are making huge amounts of money under false pretences, i personally think they should be tried ina criminal court, what they are doing is theft, its fraudulent.

Okay - fair enough. But you do seem to have some kind of vendetta against Paula and I don't know why. Of course drugs are a problem in the sport and I'm also prepared to accept that the issue isn't black and white. And I'm obviously not as well informed on the latest advances as you seem to be.

But if you everyone was to dismiss every great performance we might as well all pack it in. I believe everyone is clean unless proved otherwise. As for Paula, I don't think her performances are that surprising. People in the know having been predicting for ages that she would run a great marathon and her 5k and 10k times haven't improved by that much - she's just won for a change, that's all.

I knew a good club runner who was trying for years to break 4 minutes for 1500m. One day he did it - he ran 3:59. A week later he ran 3:57 and eventually got down to 3:54 and for the next few seasons rarely ran outside 4 minutes. Confidence is an amazing thing.

Edith wrote:

dunes runner wrote:

Anyone with 1/2 a brain cause see that DRUGS are the only reason Radcliffe has surged to the top.

She's the biggest drug junkie in history.

IT'S TRUE! The reason they can't never find the dope on her is because PAULA RADCLIFFE AIN'T HUMAN, YOU DUMMIES!! SHE'S A 25,000 YEAR OLD SHAPE-SHIFTER WITH REPTILIAN BLOOD IN HER VEINS AND SHE'S PART OF THE ILLUMINATI WORLD CONSPIRACY!!!

I wonder how many people will believe that. : )

wejo wrote:

I'll state it publicly. If paula radcliffe is busted for drugs I'm retiring from/quitting the sport. We may even shut down the website. I would no longer be able to believe any athlete at the top was clean so I would see no reason to continue.

Aha, the old Paula is innocent or I'll take my ball and go home trick. Therefore..... hmmm..... sorry, that doesn't mean she is innocent.

It is obvious to EVERYONE who looks that the only reason Ms. Radcliffe has come from being the perennial also ran is by using drugs to get rid of her competition in the press.

If anyone thinks that is not the case, then ask yourselves WHY Ms. Radcliffe has not at the very minimum publicly apologized to Olga Yegorova for the vast wrongs she has done to her.

Haha,live in your world.talk with people in your world.Everyone in your world think so.And your world and the real world are totally different.That's why.Don't bring things in your world to the real world.

I don't know Paula (or Khalid, or Chatherine or Alan or fill-in-the-name/a lot of other people) and I hope she isn't using performance enhancing drugs. I like to believe she's clean. What I don't like is what her tactics are doing for the rest of the athletes out there. It seems as though other athletes are being suspected more because they won't freeze samples; everyone is so quick to get on the "Paula's clean and so virtuous" band-wagon while pointing an accusing finger at others because they're not as vocal against drugs in our sport. Just because someone doesn't sit track side with an anti-drug sign doesn't mean they're not as passionate about getting our sport cleaned up. Fact is, no one knows for certain who's clean and who's dirty. Unfortunately, freezing samples isn't going to do anything if one is working a program properly. If things are timed properly, drugs won't show up in a fresh or frozen sample.

Also what I've come to find in my years on this Earth is that when people are so vocal about the sins of others, there's something really gnarly (sinfull) going on behind their own closed doors . . . usually taking place in the dark so that no one can see. No, I'm not saying that I think Paula's using. What I am saying is that of course I've had to fight back my own skepticism of her. She is innocent until proven otherwise as far as I'm concerned . . . I hope "otherwise" never comes because SHE IS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO THIS SPORT SINCE POWER BAR (along with Catherine and Naoko and a slew of kick ass chicks)!

Finally, when I pop my big marathon PR and I'm under the looking glass I'll give a hair sample. You can't flush that clean under any program and you can find out what's been in the system as far back as 12 years.

Peace out

molfin wrote:Caviling whatever she does.

"Caviling?" Wow. Look that up in your wa-ei jiten.

Hmmm . . . intriguing. Still, I'd like to think that PR's zealousness springs from a genuine conviction that athletes need to snap out of their passive attitude toward doping by others. If so, I tend to think she's right. Trouble is, it could just as easily deteriorate into petty spitefulness, a la the Kelly Holmes incident.

If PR really wanted to take a bold stance, though, she could volunteer for the same crapshoot that Yegorova was subjected to: Urine test only, 1 sample. Now THAT would take guts.

drewp wrote:

I'd like to think that PR's zealousness springs from a genuine conviction that athletes need to snap out of their passive attitude toward doping by others.

PR's zealousness is misplaced. For her, it's not so much a question of who is on drugs and who isn't.

Rather of who her competitors were who were beating her, as those are they one/s she went after. Most notably the #1 runner at that time, Olga Yegorova.

Even though Olga Yegorova was cleared a long time ago, PR has yet to make any public apology or reparations.

The real question is, why has she not done these things.

malmo wrote:Zat0pek, Repoxygen is years away from approval.

That's true, malmo. But that doesn't mean it won't be used and can't be made illicitly. Plus, (though this probably isn't true for Repoxygen), often the same drugs can be obtained through veterinary channels; I always got my DMSO from my vet. So did a former AR holder for the vault that went to my high school.

Bottom line is that the drugs are always ahead of the test. By the time the test is developed and implemented, the athletes have already moved on to the next generation of drugs.

Bottom line is that the drugs are always ahead of the test. By the time the test is developed and implemented, the athletes have already moved on to the next generation of drugs.

I think the testers are closing the gap on the cheaters... Remember the XC Skier that got caught at the last Olympics? He was using a supposedly undetectable form of rEPO - darbepotein (?). And he got NAILED. I think because of the efforts of vocal, aggressive athletes like Paula, the track federations are trying to clean up the sport. There is nothing like consistent pressure from the sport's best athletes to pressure the federations to keep up with the cheaters. And I for one, am very impresssed by Paula's desire to be tested anytime and anywhere. That's what I would expect from a clean athlete that wants to compete in a CLEAN sport. Heck, if I were running 2:07 (hahaha), and I thought others were using drugs, I would volunteer to be tested (blood and urine) all the time! I would want the most proof possible that I was clean.

DougC

Zat0pek wrote:

Bottom line is that the drugs are always ahead of the test. By the time the test is developed and implemented, the athletes have already moved on to the next generation of drugs.

I think there's reason to be encouraged, though. This from a March 2002 article on blood-doping deterrence in the journal Haematoligica:

". . . seeking corporate approval and intellectual input from company scientists to develop and validate detection strategies in advance of the product being (surreptitiously) available to athletes is both realistic and has been favorably received by pharmaceutical companies approached by SIAB."

(SIAB stands for the Science and Industry Against Blood doping project, "a multinational collaboration between scientific researchers, pharmaceutical companies, and hematologists, dedicated to conducting research to assist the implementation of effective strategies to address and deter the entire gamut of blood doping practices.")

Anyway, I'm under the impression that WADA and others are being aggressive about working with the drug companies to ensure that there are detection tests before the drugs are available, even "surreptitiously."

Also, SIAB advocates the use of a "hematologic passport," which would establish a baseline blood profile for athletes. Certain changes in this profile suggestive of doping -- depressed erythropoiesis, iron overload, and/or hematologic parameters substantially different from previous values -- would be grounds for barring the athlete from competition for health reasons. In this case, there would be no need to detect the drug itself.

molfin wrote:

Hmm.

To prove about EPO or similar stuff and blood doping some or less is not so difficult isn't it?

I'm not an expert,EPO dissapeared soon.But BCC remains for a long time.If her that is also clean unlike the girlfriend of the poster here,that may some or less.at least apparent or not,you see.

And weren't there the story that she revealed her test results or something?What was that?just positive or negative and substance?or the data of the sample?I couldn't get detail.

Say wha?

You have to remember why she began saying she freezed the sample...If I were her,I I would say I was prepared to report every single urine sample and cost that.

Ah,sorry.my English is very poor.

If her sampple is also in the normal range unlike the girlfriend of one poster here,that may some or less.at least apparent or not,shows .

And weren't there the story that she revealed her test results or something?What was that?just positive or negative and substance tested?or the data of the sample?I couldn't get detail.