Gate River Run Competitive Team Competition

Richard Fannin wrote:

Look at the Runners with Salazar and Schumacher at Nike OTC (Rupp, Goucher, Rohatinsky, Tegenkamp, Solinsky, Riley). Look at the runners with Brad Hudson at Marathon Performance (Ritzenhein, Carney, Hartmann. Tempo Sports (with Jorge and Ed Torres and Cabada)and of course Team USA California (with Meb, Ryan Hall and Dan Browne.

Richard you are all wet if you believe that these folks are in fact teammates.

You mentioned 3 different groups when mentioning Nike OTC.

1. Rupp is still a collegiate and his team is Oregon not OTC.

2. Goucher and Rohat train with Alberto

3. The others mentioned all run for Jerry.

You made the same mistake with Team USA.

Hall trains with Terrence he has a different coach from both Meb and Browne.

If you are going to try to run a training groups competition THIS IS NOT IT.

Kool Aid -

Gate River Run has not dubbed this a "training groups competition" It is a TEAM competititon.

The reality is this ...

Most of these elites have shoe contracts - most with strict language. Many of them on race day - are obligated to - or will - compete on a team sponsored by their shoe company.

Whether someone runs for a college sponsored by Nike (Rupp), Nike OTC with Salazar, Nike OTC with Schumacher in Portland - they may all end up racing for Nike.

We are not having a "club championship" - we are having a team competition. We will insist that teams are either all representing the same shoe company or truly part of a group that lives and trains together.

It simply is not realistic to insist that teams only be made up of those that live and train together.

We WILL NOT allow teams that have no affiliation to form.

They must either represent their shoe company or their club (i.e. Hansons, ZAP, McMillan Elite, etc.)

Hopefully that clears things up.

Rather than nitpick and poke holes in the team format, it would be nice to get excited (as I am) about the interesting match-ups it may provide.

If it does end up being "shoe-aligned" - most of the major shoe companies have 3 top-tier runners they can put up.

But again - I cannot ask a runner who has a clause in his or her shoe contract to violate it and run with a club.

Nor do I want to dilute the competition by making the rules too onerous.

If I am Zap or Hansons or any of the honest teams and a Nike All star team shows up that just happens to share a sponsor then the competition sucks. If it is an honest competition then great job.

Definition of a dishonest team. Any team where teammates haven't run together at least 3 times a week for the 2009 calender year.

This is a great idea and hopefully other USATF championships follow the example. I'd prefer to see the organizers use the team scoring eligibility defined in the USATF handbook. Don't expect many real teams to devote travel funds to face a one-day made up shoe team. That'd be fruitless.

There are many great real teams competing in Spokane next weekend, it'd be terrific if the USATF championships provided more opportunities for these athletes to face each other in meaningful competition.

Nevertheless, a step in the right direction toward promoting team competition.

You did a much better job getting across the point. It is a step in the right direction, but it will fall on its face if Shoe Company teams compete. Just wait and see.

Why don't you have a team of people that Joe Vigil claims to have coached. If you talk to Joe (or should I say listen), he claims to have coached every athlete he has ever talked to. The truth is that we all know he has never DIRECTLY coached a sub 2:13 marathoner and only one women that has run sub 2:30.

He is a perfect example of "if you say it enough, people will believe it".

oshott wrote:

Gate River Run, the 15k national championship is thinking about holding a team competition for the elite runners field. There would be prize money for the winning teams. They have already had good feedback from Team USA California and other elite programs.

What do you guys think? Any good ideals?

Is Team USA even a USATF club? To be really legit (and logical), only USATF clubs should be allowed, since it's a USATF-sanctioned event.

No they are not.

To all:

I can promise three things ...

1.) The team competition will follow USATF rules to the letter of the law.

2.) Every effort will be made to make the competition "fair and balanced"

3.) It is idealistic - but unrealistic - (in my opinion)to completely divorce shoe companies from the sport or our competition. Mnay of these great training teams are largely (or completely) funded by shoe companies, and I think it us unfair to them to eliminate them from the competition if they have contracts hammered out which specify certain things. Without the funding of the big shoe companies, many of our great elite runners would have to abandon the sport post-college.

I appreciate all comments on this subject.

I am a lifetime runner and huge fan of the sport and our intention is to do nothng but enhance an already great event.

Like anything "new" there will be growing pains - and someone will be unhappy - no matter how we structure it.

What we want is a situation where everyone (including the shoe companies)are treated fairly.

Happy running !

I agree with you. Right now it sounds like another way for three random people to make money. I'd have no interest in following or participating in this kind of team competition.

What would appeal to me is making this part of a bigger series. This is where I'd like to see USATF leadership recognize the importance of a bigger team series and enforce the team scoring standards at their national championship races. Why else have a rulebook?

The Gate River organization has to do what's best for their own race and they've come upon this idea. The chance for more prize money will probably lead to an enhanced elite field. I hope it works out and can lead to something bigger. But that's more about USATF than Gate River.

We have been in contact with USATF personnel and are awaiting their official repsonse.

When we are given guidance, we will post the formal rules of the competition.

I will be certain to post them on this site.

Thank you for your thoughtfiul interest and repsonses.

Thanks Vernon -

If USATF added an annual team competition to their year-long road championship series - it would be great.

Maybe we can be pioneers in this effort.

I think the evolution of post-collegiate teams has been the best thing to happen to ditance running in the US in many,many yeras.

Our main intention in this competition is to honor and enhance that.

Sorting through the "clubs vs. shoes" issue will be thorny, but again, we are going to follow USATF rules and put forth the best effort we know how.

Richard, appreciate the candor. I don't mean to be a thorn but you've stated multiple times that you'll follow USATF rules. Those rules (as I interpret) say that 5 score per team and that scoring is by time, not place, for a race of your distance.

If the "shoes" decided to group their runners who live within an Association into a sanctioned team, I would applaud. Team training, competition, and rivalries, are elements that would be terrific additions to this sport at the elite level. I also think it would help the "shoes". I follow this sport fairly closely but have little idea who wears what shoe. If the runners were part of the "Nike" team, I'd know.

If USATF decided to loosen rules in order to promote team competition, I'd also be happy to see that. The team competitions are very compelling at the Assocation level and could be the same for elites. Prize money attached to get their involvement.

I agree with all of your points.

If USATF mandates 5 runners - and times - not places - that is what we will do.

When I get their formal response, we will write up our official rules.

Thanks for your input.

Had a long talk with USATF officials today.

WE WILL require teams/clubs to be official USATF member clubs.

Whether we go 3 or 5 deep - and score by time or place - is still being discussed.

Stay tuned.

Hansons commited 6 men and 3 women today.

Other committed teams include

ZAP Fitness

McMillan Elite

Team USA California

Team USA Minnesota

Tempo Sports

Marathon Perfomance

Indiana Elite

It is going to be a HORSERACE !

To all:

As I have made most of you aware, we will be holding an elite team competition for the Gate River Run 15k – March 14, 2009.

Team competition is sponsored by JTC Running (formerly known as Jacksonville Track Club) and named after John TenBroeck, a long-standing member of the club who passed away in October of leukemia. Award will be named “The TenBroeck Cup”. Trophy will be permanently housed in The Gate River Run Hall Of Fame with winning team inscribed on the trophy each year.

This competition has a separate prize money structure of $20,000 – on top of – and completely independent of individual prize money of $65,000.

I have worked closely with Jim Estes of USATF in hammering out rules which comply with USATF rules for team competition.

NOTE – All team members must be US citizens

IMPORTANT – To be eligible for team competition, teams must be registered teams with the USATF for 2009.

Prize money will be identical for men and women:

1st place - $6,000

2nd place - $3,000

3rd place - $1,000

Teams may allocate winnings among their runners however they see fit.

Teams may enter as many runners as they wish, but top three (3) will score – by place – cross-country type scoring.

See rules below …

Eligibility Requirements

Clubs

· All clubs must be registered with USATF for 2009. Please submit your club application to your local Association office.

· Only teams consisting of duly accredited representatives of a member club shall be eligible to score as a team.

· All athletes entering as part of a club must be affiliated with that club as part of their USATF membership (an athlete's current affiliation can be viewed in his/her membership profile and as part of the online entry process) and meet the requirements of USATF Competition Rule 4. Athletes wishing to change affiliations can make such a request through their local Association (note that this request must be made by the athlete--see Regulation 7 in the USATF Governance Manual, Section III).

· The formation of club teams must meet all of the parameters as noted in Regulations 7 and 8 in the USATF Governance Manual, Section III and the USATF Rules of Competition, specifically Rule 4. This will be strictly enforced. Please note that in Long Distance Running, an athlete who is a non-resident member of an Association is eligible to compete for a team in that Association only if the athlete: (a) resides in an adjoining Association and the Association of residence does not offer the program, or (b) neither the Association of residence nor any Association adjoining the Association of residence offers the program. Note: An athlete with historical membership (at least 3 continuous USATF membership years) in a club is eligible to compete for that club.

We will be setting up a link for all elite runners to register on-line which will automatically confirm USATF membership and team affiliation.

In the spirit of full transparency and open competition, below are the teams we are “targeting” – we believe most will field a squad.

· Hansons/Brooks

· Indiana Elite

· McMillan Elite

· Nike OTC

· Marathon Performance

· Tempo Sports

· TEAM USA California

· Team USA Minnesota

· ZAP Fitness

· Ragged Mountain Running

· We are very excited about this competition. We are hoping it is a trend that most of the big American road races – particularly USATF championship events - will emulate.

· I believe that our total prize money of $85,000 is the richest “all US” purse for a “non-marathon” road race in 2009

· A few of you have expressed concerns regarding athletes shoe contracts and possible conflicts with competing with a USATF club.

· Jim Estes – of USATF – is well-versed in the nuances of “shoes vs. clubs” and has strong relationships with the shoe companies and has offered to discuss any concerns you may have and/or discuss them with any shoe sponsors.

· Jim can be reached at

jim.estes@usatf.org

We look forward to seeing all of you in Jacksonville in March.

I will be your best point of contact between now and the race for any issues or concerns whatsoever.

My e-mail is

Richard_Fannin@ml.com

Cell number is 904.662.3814

Below is prize money structure – identical for men and women:

· 1st - $12,000

· 2nd - $5,000

· 3rd - $3,000

· 4th - $2,000

· 5th - $1,000

· 6th - $900

· 7th - $800

· 8th - $700

· 9th - $600

· 10th - $500

· We also offer $5,000 as the “Equalizer Bonus” for the first finisher – male or female - to cross the line – with women given a 5 minute head start.

· We also offer $5,000 for an American Record and $3,000 for a Course Record.

· Since the American Records were both set at Gate River Run – anyone achieving either (both) would get the full $8,000

· Men’s AR – Todd Williams – 42:22

· Women’s AR – Deena Kastor – 47:15

· Lastly, $10,000 for a World Record

· Men’s WR is 41:29 (Felix Limo)

· Women’s WR is 46:55 (Kayoko Fukushi)

· We also offer $5,000 as the “Equalizer Bonus” for the first finisher – male or female - to cross the line – with women given a 5 minute head start.

Richard, This is really exciting. I watch it every year due to the Americans you bring in with the really cool equalizer which makes it compelling-Meb racing against Deena? It doesn't get any better than that-until this team competition.

So... Are you going to score the CC style points based on finish by team without regard to male female as that's already been taken care of by the equalizer? I think that would be really compelling. The third female of a team versus the forth male for all the marbles, rather than having to watch and keep track of two separate sets of scores.

Great job! Hope you can put together a few more 15k team events. This is a perfect distance for this idea. Enough time to make an equalizer compelling, not too long which keeps the marathoners from committing, and could fit into an hour time slot on TV every other week all year (keep dreaming)

Kudos to you and Jim Estes.

The team competiton is separate, in addition to and on top of all individual prize money.

Men's and women's teams will be completely separate.

POTENTIAL MONEY

Winners get $12,000

Equalizer is $5,000

Course record/American record (one in the same)is $8,000

VERY POSSIBLE WITH THIS FIELD

If winner is on winning team, that is another $2,000

So winner could potentially walk away with $27,000