Ryan Hall vs Bill Rodgers

You guys all need a reality check ... THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER BILL RODGERS! It was a different era and different competition. Rodgers both rode the wave of a boom and was the best or close to it for his NY and Boston wins when those really had the attention of Americans. Because of that and all the other races he ran ... seemingly everywhere ... he really became a legend of sorts.

Leirbag wrote:

Olympic Marathon Trials Champion Record

Ryan Hall, 1-0

Bill Rodgers, 0-3

Bill Rodgers, 0-1

Historian wrote:

Leirbag wrote:

Olympic Marathon Trials Champion Record

Ryan Hall, 1-0

Bill Rodgers, 0-3

Bill Rodgers, 0-1

UGHHHH!!! 0-2! He was second in 76 and 8th in 84. He ran no others.

This was the single most uninformed person when it comes to doping. I also do not believe that Hall is a doper, but your arguments are obsurd.

1. MOST dopers were excellent runners at all levels

2. Most great high school and college runners don't run under an hour for a half marathon. Hall is doing certain things better than any american ever.

3. Regina Jacobs was also good at all levels and we know she is slimey.

4. Hall looked horrible on the track last year.

The point is simple. In an attempt to defend Ryan Hall, not one of your supporting arguments made your point.

Billy ran 2:09 at Boston essentially alone, stopping five times along the way for water and once on Heartbreak Hill to tie his shoe.

Bill & Ryan wrote:

Rodgers did the things that he's famous for mainly between ages 30-36. Hall is 25ish, and was much faster in high school and college than Rodgers was in high school and college. So we really need to wait and watch for about 10 years.

Actually did the majority of his work before 1980, ran an AR in '75 when he was 28. In fact he didn't run after college, started smoking, etc, I think for about a year. He didn't run his first marathon until age 26 in only 2:28 and DNF's his first Boston.

Alan

Rodgers was 27 when he ran Boston in 75 - he was born in 12/47. He DNF his first marathon which was Boston in 73.

Bill's best years were probably 77-78 when he was 29-30.

Hall and Rodgers do seem somewhat alike in ways. Certainly, their physical talent is in the same rarefied atmosphere.

Comparing the two makes the differences in the competitive environment so apparent.

Hall is much better prepared for top performances than was Rodgers. Rodgers, as was common in his era, bounced from road race to road race in order to pick up paychecks. His training was continually compromised in favor of an up-coming race.

Hall is much more focused on doing the proper build up for a single outstanding race. Hall is more aligned with physiologists and altitude training whereas Rodgers was more aligned with the Eliot Lounge and large jars of mayonaisse.

Shorter's approach was closer to Hall's in the sense that he focused more on being the best at the most important time. He has the Olympic medals to prove it. Rodgers did it his way - and his accomplishments are many and he did it with ferocity on the race course and grace and humility off.

Actually, I have no idea if Rodgers went to the Eliot Lounge on not...jars of mayonaisse, I witnessed first hand.

Obviously, both are great runners, both in their own respects.

A few differences that I note, having run races in both eras.

Rodgers had a four year period where he was the dominant marathoner/road racer in the US. While Shorter succeeded in the Olympics, his last strong year as a marathoner was 1976, which was Rodgers' second strong year at the distance. Rodgers won the Cherry Blossom 10-Miler in Wash, DC four years straight, running record time in 1980. He did not always win, but he usually won. He won Boston 1975, 1978, 1979, 1980. Although he would admit that he did not run well in the heat, 1980 Boston WAS hot, and Rodgers won anyway.

Ryan Hall followed a clearer path to success than did Rodgers, no missteps such as a period of drinking, smoking, not training. Hall had success on his first try, it took Rodgers a few tries to learn how to race the marathon distance properly (something he has written and undoubtedly stated thousands of times).

One other HUGE difference-Rodgers was still teaching as a special education teacher in the Boston area as late as the 1978-1979 school year. I think he finally quit to train for the 1980 Olympics, and when his commercial ventures began to grow, he did not have to return to teach.

Rodgers not only ran very fast, not only won big races, but he ran very fast in a lot of big races over a fairly long time. Hall is a great runner, and may well leave a similar or greater legacy.

If BR had the same advantages as Hall, I think he would take Ryan down. When BR first started he was still working as an orderly in a hospital and running crazy miles and winning big races.

Had he been a full time runner, with all that comes with that I think he'd be right there with the best of todays runners. I'm just glad that we finally have some young guys in the conversation now!

My first issue of Runner's World was the '78 Boston issue; my recollection was that Amby Burfoot wrote the article and that Rodgers was 33 at that point -- maybe it actually said 30 (I should've looked up Rodgers' age). Anyway, I was saying that 1975 to 1980 were Rodgers' best years. So apparently that means roughly ages 27 to 33, not 30 to 36. So give Ryan about 8 years.

BR--legend.

Hall still a kid---bring this question back in 10 years.

hounddogharrier wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

Rodgers was one of the top 3 or top 5 marathoners in his era...Hall still has 2 minutes to knock off. In order to compare runners in different eras you must compare how competitive they were in their era. Bill wins.

Alan

I can't say it better than this. Case closed.

Hall still has to win some big time marathons and he hasn't yet proved that he's top 5. Still, he was 45 seconds off the winner in his London debut and in the trials he made running away from one of the better batches of Americans we've seen in many years look patheticly easy. 2 minutes faster on the days he ran would be positively scary.

There's been a lot of misinformation on this thread. A few quick points:

1. The fastest that Rodgers ran on a record-quality course was just under 2:11, at Fukuoka. His only sub-2:10s were at the ridiculously aided 1975 Boston marathon and the significantly aided 1979 Boston marathon. Hall's times at London and NYC were far superior to any of Bill's times. Hall's times at shorter distances (esp. half-marathon) were also much better than Bill's.

2. Although Bill was still teaching in 1975, and continued to work at various jobs (including his shoe store) for a long time, he was still pretty darn close to being a "full-time" professional runner during most of his peak years. In fact, even though prize money was not allowed in those days, and certain restrictions on the receipt and use of prize money continued to apply for some years thereafter, Bill made vastly more money as a runner than Hall ever has, and probably more than Hall ever will (and almost certainly more when adjusted for inflation).

3. My first two comments might suggest that I believe that Hall would have beaten Bill pretty handily. But I think it's a fairly tough call, at least in the marathon. I remember watching Bill during the last mile of the 1979 Boston marathon. He had finally put away Seko, his last remaining challenger in the race, and he was just having fun, smiling and (as I recall) holding his Snoopy cap in his hand. He still ran something like 2:09:27. It's hard to say what Bill could have run at his peak, because he crushed the competition in most of his races and just cruised to victory.

4. I've never met Hall. He seems like a nice guy. I haven't spent much time around Bill, but it's hard to find anyone who has anything bad to say about him. He just seems like an unassuming fellow who takes a genuine interest in others.

I've been around and talked with Bill since the late '70's and I would agree he and Ryan share that aw-shucks attitude at their remarkable abilities. Beyond that it's way too early to make comparisons. I will admit that with the emergence of Ryan I haven't been this excited about an American runner since Boston Billy. I would like to see Ryan run the Boston Marathon prior to the Olympics.

When Hall is the #1 ranked marathoner in the world then we can compare. 4 Boston wins, 4 NYC wins. Hall is 2 minutes or more behind the best in the world right now.

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

When Hall is the #1 ranked marathoner in the world then we can compare. 4 Boston wins, 4 NYC wins. Hall is 2 minutes or more behind the best in the world right now.

Or we could stop comparing runners of different eras as if there's some objective way to do so. Admittedly, though, that would spoil the fun.

i think that we all should consider the fact that the two men we are comparing are in VERY different stages of their career. We are comparing Rodgers entire CAREER vs Halls two marathons. In all honesty, i feel that the fact we are comparing the two should say A LOT for Hall. He's only run two marathons, and is being compared to one of the greatest marathoners in history.

When compared in black and white results, Rodgers hands down takes the cake - though people are forgetting that Hall is VERY NEW to marathoning - he's only run two. For those simply comparing black and white results, you should take into consideration that you're summing on Rodgers CAREER vs Halls TWO marathons.

despite rodgers many (many) victories, i think the only way to compare these two runners right now is to compare the EARLY stages of their marathon careers - where Hall would easily take the cake. Hall challenged the worlds best in his debut marathon and cracked 2:08. Rodgers DNFd his first and took him over a year before he was winning big events and running 2:10s.

so when you compare the EARLY stages of the career (i feel it to be the only fair factor - given the fact that Hall is still VERY new to marathoning), it would easily be Hall. Though given a few more years, he may (or may not) obtain the amount of titles as Rodgers.

Though this comparison is difficult because you can't fairly compare Rodgers career vs Halls first two (and only) marathons - and i feel the fact that people are attempting to do compare should say A LOT for Hall.