Vinokourov caught Doping!!!

Honestly, although I am a Vino fan, I think it's a great thing that he apparently got caught, same as Jaksche, Hamilton, Landis, et al. The more who are caught, the better the chance that cycling gets the word, the more honest the competition. When a guy like David Millar is floored, you must be getting somewhere, you know? I'd now like to see more T and F athletes getting caught, because it's clear that at the professional level many athletes are using these kinds of banned methods of improving performance.

I've been really into the tour this year, pretty much a nerd from 7-10 p.m. every nite. I was so fired up about Contador and his attacks I was cheering like I was at a track meet.

Then I read this stuff....man this sucks.

so does this mean kloeden and kasheckin and all of astana is out?

or just vino

well lance was still clean!!!!!!!!!!!!!

haha.

ga boy wrote:

so does this mean kloeden and kasheckin and all of astana is out?

yep. all gone.

Turns out they've identified who gave Vino the fusion. It's a 100% match for Lance Armstrong. I always knew Lancy was involved...just never thought it was in this way.

Yeah, preliminary reports say that Astana has completely bagged the Tour. Well, on the bright side, Leipheimer doesn't have to worry about Kloeden in the last ITT anymore...

makes me wonder wrote:

You gotta wonder how bad T and F was the past 15 years. In fact, you gotta wonder how bad T and F still is. If you think people running the roads, especially marathons, aren't doping on similar levels, then you're nuts.

I have no doubt that T and F is every bit as dirty as cycling despite what some people on this site think. My only question is, why aren't as many T and F athletes getting caught? Are they just more sophisticated in their methods, or is there something about riding on the tour for several weeks and getting tested daily that makes one more vulnerable?

hahahahahaha i knew it and i am glad. cycling has become a wasteland of a sport and i really hope that astana pulls all funding.

just like i posted on the tdf thread, no one cares they are all dopers. i would be willing to be 95% of the guys in the tdf are doping. if you really believe that rasmussen, contador, leipheimer, and all the other guys who were beating vino are clean you are out of your mind. throw lance in there as well, he's a doper.

hypnotoad wrote:

ga boy wrote:

so does this mean kloeden and kasheckin and all of astana is out?

yep. all gone.

Just wished with that they quit after stage 16. Need more teams to put the pressure on the chicken. Weaken him up, and contdor puts the hammer down.

as long as you assume everyone is doping - then it is a fair playing field - just enjoy the drama.

Yeah Yeah. They're "all dirty" and anybody who does not believe that is stupid. And nobody here cares. And everyone here is "tired of this". And everyone here is DONE with cycling. Blah blah blah

And every last one of you will be right back here, watching next year, commenting on strategy, tactics, riders, teams, drugs, etc. And the year after that and the year after that.

T&F isn't necessarily as dirty as cycling. Consider the fact that the Tour has always been riden on drugs of some kind, from brandy and strychnine to pills to epo and blood doping. T&F hasn't had the kind of systemic drug use from day one that cycling has. Not saying T&F is clean as a whistle, but nothing so rampent.

El Hombre wrote:

But last year it was an American, so he was clean.

Nope, I believe that very few people actually think that Landis or Armstrong or hamilton were clean. With all the compelling circumstantial and direct evidence, you'd have to be an idiot not to think so. Of course, it's much easier to raise reasonable doubt than to get an affirmative indictment.

THE thing is, they are all doping because EVERYONE is doping, and they have no chocie to be able to compete and earn their livelihoods. if nobody was doping, the same names would probably still be dominating.

Sagarin wrote:

Should read: With all the compelling circumstantial and direct evidence, you'd have to be an idiot to think so.

..screw 7-10 every night....it's all about Phil Leggett from 4:30 to 10 in the morning

Life is a Journey wrote:

I have no doubt that T and F is every bit as dirty as cycling despite what some people on this site think. My only question is, why aren't as many T and F athletes getting caught? Are they just more sophisticated in their methods, or is there something about riding on the tour for several weeks and getting tested daily that makes one more vulnerable?

I think there are a number of reasons to believe that endurance running has fewer dopers than cycling. Of course I'm not saying it doesn't go on, but I don't believe it to be as pervasive as in cycling.

1) First and foremost, there's more money in cycling.

2) Club level athletics has no drug culture, certainly not one I've ever heard of, whereas cycling has.

3) Fellow athletes have never been slow to call drug takers cheats, in cycling there is a long tradition of keeping quiet.

At the top level of course it still happens, but I really believe that the fewer positives in running reflects a fewer number of dopers.

I could be completely wrong though.

Why is the article written tommorow?

It's dated July 25th. Even with time zones, in Europe its still today

i believe on the document contodor (supposedly) said next to his name "nothing like JJ (jorg jaske). Does this mean nothing like in the concept a chicken is nothing like a cow or in another context.

I've enjoyed watching the stages everyday they are on. But, I would be totally amazed how someone could ride the whole tour without doping. I mean, one mountain stage in the heat would be brutal. I think if the tour was totally clean, the times would be alot slower and the leaders would possibly change daily.