Western States Winner is . . .

Yes. I think he was class of 89.

bump

miamiredhawk wrote:

Can't way to see the Jurek vs. Metzler showdown at Hardrock.

Wow, if only Matt Carpenter was running Hardrock 100 also. That'd settle a lot of debates about the prowess of those 3. That's Matt's kind of race too... altitude and lots of climbing.

no disrespect at all to the winners but i still contend that a 2:05 marathoner would win western states after training. remember, most world class runners spend time running in the mountains.

and to the 2:22 marathoner, you are nowhere near the level of a 2:07 marathoner. and i do know about that as i have ran 2:23. i have also ran a mountain 50k in fishcamp, ca where i ran 4:13 i believe.

i mean, my marathon pr is about 35 seconds a mile slower than the owrld class guys.

i like the idea of a high $$$ race to try to get some 2:07-2:15 guys out there to give it a whirl.

On the other hand... wrote:

...I was waiting for 100 posts from the "elite" D-2 distance runners who get EXTREMELY offended if you are talking about the 100-miler instead of the Adams State rivals:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1502570

Any idiot knows the difference between western states and western state

It was a great race at WS yesterday. I've been going to the race for many years and this was definitely very exciting. Kind of like when Morton set the CR and Twietmeyer was unable to reel him in. Koerner maintained the pace and brought it in. He's done well once here but mostly goes too hard and drops. It was great to see such a fine performance. That includes all who finished and took care of themselves out there.

As for fast guys... there have been "trained" sub-2:20 guys who have been whooped by Ann Trason. I've run everything from 1mi to 100mi and there is nothing that says a fast marathoner will excel at WS if they train.

After watching DI's and then WS within weeks, I can appreciate athletes from both worlds. WS is a race against the course and conditions with extra incentive on competition with others. It's fun and the top runners are all who put an incredible amount of effort into training and racing as best as they can.

A healthy perspective on the potential of lowering the CR should be that if guys/gals want to come and run this event and give it a try they should. I don't think money should enter into luring fast people. There's no reason. It would ruin the event.

And, the heat and hills are such huge factors. The hills remain, but the heat never showed this weekend. Congrats to those who picked this year to run - the conditions made for a great day and many fast times.

They have it.

It's annual and it's called Comrades.

seriously, every year at this time people come on here and contend that any world class kenyan could win WS, blah, blah, blah.

its a moot point.

broken arrow wrote:

None of the mentioned runners would even finish Western States. The course would shred them, it is not the 100 miles that you have to overcome, it is the heat, fluid and fuel replacement, and very specific training, (so the long and severe down hills do not destroy your quads, and many other factors that have to be addressed to be able to negotiate this course.

Exactly. It's basically a very long "adventure" trail race. Why any distance runners care to even debate the merits of it, I don't fully understand. It is what it is... a wacky spinoff of distance running. Who cares whether the kenyans would dominate Scott Jurek (they would)- they don't want to, so it ain't gonna happen. Enjoy it for what it is.

Lets see a list of marathon PRs of the Western States finishers. That should give us an idea if there is a correlation.

Anyone have any leads on that type of info?

All distances wrote:

As for fast guys... there have been "trained" sub-2:20 guys who have been whooped by Ann Trason.

who are these fast guys?

again, huge diff between 2:19 and 2:07 ability wise.

regardless, after doing a 50k i appreciate the distance and the event. i have no desire to train for a 100 race. i have seen some friends do it and it is beyond committment.

but nothing will change my mind about the success a 2:07 guy would have other than watching one atempt it.

All distances wrote:

As for fast guys... there have been "trained" sub-2:20 guys who have been whooped by Ann Trason. I've run everything from 1mi to 100mi and there is nothing that says a fast marathoner will excel at WS if they train.

All distances, I've also been to WS100 many times to watch, crew, pace and work aid stations. I LOVE this race. I also agree that many really good marathoners have not run well at WS100 and have been beaten by the trail and Scott Jurek.

However, I know scores (literally) of runners who have moved up from shorter distances to run WS100 and in general, the faster they were at shorter distances, the faster they were at WS100. There are exceptions, some runners just can't digest enough food while on the run, some just don't manage their energy well enough, and some don't have the physiological make-up to run for over 15 hours. But in general, the faster they were at 10k, the faster they were at 100 miles. So I believe that if you took the ten top marathoners in the world and had them train for WS100 for a year, and then gave a prize purse and a decent finishing bonus, then half or so would demolish the course record. a few would not finish and a couple would run between 22 and 26 hours.

turkey leg wrote:

Lets see a list of marathon PRs of the Western States finishers. That should give us an idea if there is a correlation.

Anyone have any leads on that type of info?

What does the marathon PR of a WS finisher have to do with the price of tea in china?

what part of "they are not even close to being the same race" don't you get?

I know. You don't! I invite everyone here to take part in the memorial day training camp they have. It's open to all runners and usually gives you a chance to run about 70 miles of the course over a 3 day period.

Do that, then tell me what part of the marathon that weekend reminded you of.

I agree with you "would-a-coulda." Well put.

Just trying to point out that it doesn't extend directly like it does from 5K to 10K for example. In other words, just being fast in a 5K does have a lot to do with being fast in the 10K and finish places wouldn't change much. But there are so many factors at WS that screw it up for the faster guys.

Jim Howard made it work. But not all the time. Rich Hanna had his troubles. Scott St John had his too but he had some success.

I absolutely agree that if enough top world guys trained and focused on the event, the CR would drop. However, as you know, they better be able to deal with the heat and run down hill. And, puke on the run.... Wonder what Kempainen is up to these days (what color was that Gatorbarf he let fly in the trials?).

I may have been misquoted but I believe I said, or meant to say, Alaskan fishboat CAPTAINS could make up to 100-150k in a season. Of course the salary isn't standardized and of course not a given. Just that you can make a lot of money by working for 60+ days a year as a captain of a boat. Of course you might die, 400 deaths per 100,000 in the 90s...highest of any job. Highest 10% flight attendant will make over 80k. In general, the more inconvenienced you are the higher you're going to get paid. I think it would suck to fly all the freaking time. I also think it would suck working 18 hour days in Alaskan waters.

PS- Every year some fast African shows up at the Mt Washington race and gets creamed. Same would happen at Western States. Now...if it was a 100 mile road race it might be different. Dan Held, former 2:12 marathoner, was 4th or 5th one year at the world 100k champs.....but 100k is only 62 miles. I think I remember reading about him trying longer but it not working out. Everything I've read about 100 mile races is that something happens in the last 2/3 of the race that makes or breaks you...sort of like the wall. At that distance you've got some serious electrolyte issues going on.

From CNN:

1. Surgeons: $177,690

2. Anesthesiologists: $174,240

3. Obstetricians and Gynecologists: $171,810

4. Orthodontists: $163,410

5. Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons: $160,660

6. Internists, General: $156,550

7. Psychiatrists: $146,150

8. Prosthodontists: $146,080

9. Family and General Practitioners: $140,370

10. Chief Executives: $139,810

11. Pediatricians, General: $139,230

12. Airline Pilots, Copilots, and Flight Engineers: $135,040

13. Dentists, General: $133,680

14. Podiatrists: $111,250

15. Lawyers: $110,520

16. Air Traffic Controllers: $105,820

17. Engineering Managers: $105,470

18. Computer and Information Systems Managers: $102,360

19. Marketing Managers: $101,990

20. Astronomers: $101,360

21. Natural Sciences Managers: $99,140

22. Sales Managers: $98,510

23. Petroleum Engineers: $97,350

24. Financial Managers: $96,620

25. Law Teachers, Postsecondary: $95,570

26. Optometrists: $95,500

27. General and Operations Managers: $95,470

28. Computer and Information Scientists, Research: $94,030

29. Judges, Magistrate Judges, and Magistrates: $91,500

30. Physicists: $91,480

31. Actuaries: $90,760

32. Nuclear Engineers: $90,690

33. Industrial-Organizational Psychologists: $89,980

34. Human Resources Managers: $89,950

35.Pharmacists: $88,650

36. Securities, Commodities, and Financial Services Sales Agents: $87,990

37. Health Diagnosing and Treating Practitioners: $87,630

38. Computer Hardware Engineers: $87,170

39. Public Relations Managers: $85,820

40. Aerospace Engineers: $85,450

41. Political Scientists: $84,820

42. Physical Scientists: $84,380

43. Computer Software Engineers, Systems Software: $84,310

44. Personal Financial Advisors: $82,970

45. Health Specialties Teachers, Postsecondary: $82,450

46. Chiropractors: $82,060

47. Industrial Production Managers: $81,960

48. Construction Managers: $81,760

49. Purchasing Managers: $81,440

50. Advertising and Promotions Managers: $81,250

please mister wrote:

a troll.

Since RunningArt2004 has been posting for a long time and often has very good posts, and since you do not appear to know this, my guess is you have not been posting here long.

It's often a good idea to lurk a bit before you go off half cocked and start posting.

Runningart2004 wrote:

I'm waiting for 100 posts about how Geb/Bekele/Lagat/Tergat/etc would run 14:00 at Western States.

Alan

While I'm sure Geb or Tergat would slaughter the course record and competition, we will have to resort to speculation on both sides since neither of these greats will ever attempt to run such an event. There is no reason for them to run it since they are making millions from the marathon and track.

Mens Comrades Winners

Year Winner Time

1990 Bruce Fordyce 5.40:25

1991 Nick Bester 5.40:53

1992 Jetman Msutu 5.46:11

1993 Charly Doll 5.39:41

1994 Alberto Salazar 5.38:39

1995 Shaun Meiklejohn 5.34:02

1996 Dmitri Grishine 5.29:33

1997 Charl Mattheus 5.28:37

1998 Dmitri Grishine 5.26:25

1999 Jaroslaw Janicki 5.30:10

2000 Vladimir Kotov 5.25:33

2001 Andrew Kelehe 5.25:51

Ladies Comrades Winners

Year Winner Time

1990 Naidene Harrison 7.02:00

1991 Frith van der Merwe 6.08:19

1992 Frances van Blerk 6.51:05

1993 Tilda Tearle 6.55:07

1994 Valentina Liakhova 6.41:23

1995 Maria Bak 6.22:45

1996 Ann Trason 6.13:23

1997 Ann Trason 5.58:25

1998 Rae Bisschoff 6.38:57

1999 Birgit Lennartz 6.31:03

2000 Maria Bak 6.15:35

2001 Elvira Kolpakova 6.13:53

100 miles is about 4 times as long as either Geb or Tergat have ever run...maybe close to 3 times depending on their longest long run.

I think they could dominate in the mid-ultra distances, up to 100k and on the road. Mix in trails and THOUSANDS of feet of climbing and it gets tricky. Runners like Geb, Tergat, etc are basically taking their track speed and turnover and bringing to the roads on typically flat marathons. They can easily succeed that way. Fast flat runners have been killed at Mt Washington because that turnover doesn't help them. And as it has been stated...there have been 2:20 guys come to Western trained and get their butts handed to them by a girl. That alone should tell you it's a completely different race with different metabolic requirements, different muscular requirements. I also think about 90% of this board would be schooled by Deano in a 100 mile race..:)

Alan

turkey leg wrote:

Lets see a list of marathon PRs of the Western States finishers. That should give us an idea if there is a correlation.

Anyone have any leads on that type of info?

Hal Koerner

Reading Marathon January 2007 - 2:45

No known marathons in 2005-06

Seatle Marathon 2004 - 2:48