I won't even pretend to understand the system, but I do have a question.
Earlier, a lot of people were high on the Butler women, and I thought that their fourth place showing yesterday would have locked them in....But they're not. How come?
I won't even pretend to understand the system, but I do have a question.
Earlier, a lot of people were high on the Butler women, and I thought that their fourth place showing yesterday would have locked them in....But they're not. How come?
UW women (among others) got screwed. UNC and WF??? WTF????
Jerry Seinfeld wrote:
UW women (among others) got screwed. UNC and WF??? WTF????
The at large qaulifiers are based on a mathematical formula, not a subjective formula. That is the way it is done, so nobody got screwed. The NCAA selection committee does not care if someone is the best team in the country, if they didn't earn enough at large points and weren't an automatic qualifier, such as UTEP on the men's side, they are not going to nationals. Now whether this process is how it should be or not is a whole other debate, but whether someone got screwed or not isn't up for debate. UNC and WF had more at large points than Washington and they got in, even if Washington is the better team and even if everyone on the selection committee thinks so, it just doesn't matter.
I don't care what anyone says, UNC and Wake going is a joke!
Whether we like it or not, the system that is in place (which was created by coaches) worked the way it should. Wake and North Carolina beat the teams they had to beat, and ended up just getting in. But they got in. While someone said that Wake did not deserve to be in, and Washington did Wake did beat Washington head to head in Oregon.
I'd love to change the system, but until that time rolls around the system works for what purpose its intended to.
Jerry Seinfeld wrote:
UW women (among others) got screwed. UNC and WF??? WTF????
WOWWWW!!! I agree Washington got screwed. 9 MEN's TEAM selected from the West Region (7 at-large)???!!! And UTEP Men didn't get in?????? What a travesty.
I think Butler woman ended up behind Wake at Oregon but that may be a moot point. I think UNC and Wake got lucky in the fact that Boston College became an automatic qualifier and I assume they built points on beating them head to head at some point during the season (Maybe ACC conference meet?), but lets face it their resume is pretty weak if you look at pre-nats and regionals. The ACC should give a great big thank you to Boston College.
Wake never beat BC or any national qualifier during the season that wasn't ahead of them at their own region.
Does anyone know what the formula is for deciding the points to award at large selections? It looks like Pre Natl's does not carry much weight.
Looking at Pre-Natl's there is noway Butler should have been left out versus Wake or UNC. The following is the combined results from Pre-Natl's
1 Stanford 99
2 North Carolina State 233
3 Wisconsin 359
4 Michigan 363
5 Minnesota 394
6 UC Santa Barbara 403
7 Arizona State 427
8 Illinois 457
9 Brigham Young 468
10 Colorado 474
11 Providence 480
12 Michigan State 493
13 Florida State 505
14 Florida 598
15 Tennessee 599
16 Georgetown 608
17 Iona 626
18 Georgia 638
19 Princeton 640
20 Iowa 664
21 Colorado State 669
22 Virginia 694
23 Boston College 714
24 Weber State 724
**25 Butler 765
**26 Columbia 812
**27 La Salle 826
**28 Notre Dame 848
**29 Indiana 850
30 North Carolina 854
*31 Northern Arizona 858
*32 UCLA 858
*33 Villanova 898
*34 Marquette 911
*35 Washington State 928
*36 Washington 931
*37 Oklahoma State 933
*38 UC Irvine 993
XX 39 Wake Forest 994
40 Oklahoma 1004
41 Cornell 1043
42 William and Mary 1045
43 Yale 1060
44 Missouri 1083
45 Texas A&M 1105
46 Ohio 1241
47 Penn State 1244
48 Rice 1253
49 Wichita State 1263
50 Brown 1296
51 Coastal Carolina 1313
52 Montana 1318
53 Portland 1318
54 Texas Christian 1354
55 New Mexico 1409
56 Bucknell 1439
57 Long Beach State 1465
58 Utah State 1501
59 Alabama/Birmingham 1511
60 Liberty 1521
61 Tulsa 1551
62 Louisville 1567
63 Missouri State 1571
64 Valparaiso 1599
65 Montana State 1622
66 Ohio State 1663
67 Charlotte 1686
68 Indiana State 1686
69 Purdue 1710
70 Arizona 1711
71 Auburn 1852
72 Air Force 2075
73 Duquesne 2127
What do the asterisks mean?
What you show above is irrelevant. That isn't how the qualifying system is set up. It is set up to reward wins, not penalize losses. The fact of the matter is none of those teams with asterisks could get a win vs. Duke and BC like UNC and Wake did. UNC and Wake had some bad races during the year, but they were capable of beating good teams. The qualifying system worked just as as designed. Much bigger problems on the Men's side than the Women's for sure.......UTEP took themselves out of it. If anything is learned from this year, it is that the mid-major conferences are at the disadvantage of having only 2 opportunities to score points vs. 3 for the major conferences......don't hate the player....hate the game....or change the rules.....though I do believe Wake and UNC have a better probability of placing higher at the National meet than the teams with asterisks above....they may have a bad race, but they are capable of beating quality teams according to the point system.....and again that is how the system was designed.
My question was if anyone knows the specifics as to the formula used to arrive at the points that is used to decide.
I know a team can have a bad day but it was not even close in there head on head match up at Pre Natl's. Most of the ** teams are teams who only head to head match up with Wake was at Pre Natls and never had an opportunity to go against Duke or BC on one of their bad days.
A for the above post pre nats combined results are irrelevent because those are considered two difference races. But I also can't figure out how Wake and UNC both got in if the committee followed the rules. Something got screwed up or misinterpreted.
Even if it did come down to head to head scoring....Wake and UNC may have a better head to head record...in part and in total. If I recall correctly....Wake beat many of those schools in Oregon and UNC beat many at Notre Dame and it seems many of those listed above at Pre-Nats according to your results. You can't have it both ways.
"My question is if anyone knows the specifics as to the formula used to arrive at the points that are used to decide."
If someone knows it would be helpful in understanding how they arrived at the selected at large teams.
UNC had wins against Wash and Ok St. Wake had win against Wash as well as common opponents. End of Story.
With 2 spots remaining. Nebraska, Wash, Ok St, UNC, Wake all have one point. See above for last 2 spots.
What about Butler, LaSalle and Columbia that beat WFU and UNC at pre-nats?!
If a team doesn't make the auto, they are not in top-20 contention. If you are relying on at-large, you have no basis from which to whine.
Well because you said so, I guess only 20 teams should be allowed to go.