"There were 10 committed runners in town, but I was the only real athlete training."

Yes. I think he died in a car crash soon after.

I heard that it was a motorcycle crash and that he had developed a drug problem. I met the guy at a running camp in 1973 in southern Colorado. I forget the name of the camp, but it was near Pueblo.

Anyway, doesn't J.J. still have the fastest high school time for 2 miles or 3200 meters from Boulder?

And oh, yeah. Frank Shorter was scheduled to appear at the camp, but he never showed. Ron Daws was there, however. Great guy! He never tired of talking to the high school runners. He advised J.J. to do fewer hard runs.

When did Shorter go down to Florida? Was that before or after going back west? Didn't he train with Jack and Barry in prep for 76?

SRY wrote:

Blue and yellow? Where did they go to school? Michigan?

CU's colors weren't always black and gold.

Shorter moved to Gainesville in 1970.

I don't recall the exact time period, 1972-1973 probably. However, I believe Castaneda and Gregorio were running 13:10ish for 3 miles at the time. Jerry Quiller was doing a great job coaching CU distance runners, and had some good club runners as well. I remember Quiller hauling around guys in his VW bus. Good guy doing great work in Boulder early on.

Contented Free Agent wrote:

SRY wrote:

Blue and yellow? Where did they go to school? Michigan?

CU's colors weren't always black and gold.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I don't recall the exact time period, 1972-1973 probably. However, I believe Castaneda and Gregorio were running 13:10ish for 3 miles at the time. Jerry Quiller was doing a great job coaching CU distance runners, and had some good club runners as well. I remember Quiller hauling around guys in his VW bus. Good guy doing great work in Boulder early on.

That was 1973. They were 2nd and 3rd to Pre's 13:05 in the bayou of LSU. John Ngeno and Mike Keough (who now lives in Baton Rouge) were 4th and 5th.

Hey malmo, could you clear up for us exactly when Big Frank moved to Boulder?

You can look that up in Sandrock's book. No, I won't look it up for you.

The Rich Get Richer wrote:

Does Wittenberg truly believe that it's a lack of funding that's keeping people like Ritzenhein, the ones "coming out of college who have the best shot of winning gold medals", from contending for medals? Those are the ones who have plenty of money right off the bat from sponsorship contracts, do they really need more and will it make the difference in winning a gold medal?

well, I believe it. plenty of money??? this is america, where you can make much more money doing other jobs...so yes lots of money may keep good runners hanging around long enough, and also attract new runners to commit to a professional running career.

Mountain Mazungo wrote:

Hey malmo, could you clear up for us exactly when Big Frank moved to Boulder?

Regretfully, that information is out of my purview.

I kinda/sorta remember him running for Florida Track Club when I was in high school.

July 1972 TAFN (That would be Greg Fredericks about to break the AR with a 55.0 last lap)

This is Earth, where you have hungrier Africans willing to do more to make less than all those Americans who could be making "much more money doing other jobs". The Ritzenheins of the world have plenty of money starting out as pros compared with their Ethiopian and Kenyan peers. And of course for everyone from the US and west with Ritzenhein type ability there are at least 10 poor Africans of similar ability and potential.

It's sort of hard to pick one date. Shorter had a phase where he drifted around a bit. He went from Yale to Gainesville to train with Bacheler. Then a few of the FTC guys went to Vail to get ready for Munich but were still lin=ving in Gainesville. After Munich he had a stretch of time in Taos and was going to Boulder to be with his future ex-wife (does that cover all relational bases?) eventually settling in Boulder prior to the Montreal Olympics. If I had to pick a year, I'd say he was in Boulder by 1974.

No. It had to be later because when I moved to Washington, DC in 1974 he was still in Gainesville. I knew someone who knew someone who was in Gainesville then and running for the FTC and we'd occasionally get reports of these interval sessions he did. So I'd move that Boulder arrival to 1975, though I'm sure people in Boulder saw him there earlier than that.

Guys, to clear some things up:

1. JJ was from Pueblo,not Boulder, I think Centennial HS.

2. JJ was in Boulder for a short time and then went to school, either jr. college or at SCSC, in Pueblo.While in Boulder I think that Ken Swensen worked him out.

3. In 1965 the population was said to be 60,000 plus 20,000 students. In the early '70's it was said to be 80,000 and I don't know what they did with the students(maybe 3/5 of a person).

4. I ran 30th St. from 1965 to 1976, lived on 30th at Baseline, at Valmont,and in Palo Park and it was never dirt unless you are referring to repairs or widening.

5. I am not an expert on Shorter, but in the days when he was just "Frank", he was training here in '70 and in '72. One of the reasons that he moved here was that Meyers and Quiller told him that he could use the facilities(indoors and outdoors) for training.This was all during the time when all money was under the table. I think that Frank crashed all over the country.

6. The only time that I remember Ted and Grogs with blue and gold was when they ran in Colorado Track Club jerseys.

7. Quiller had the blue Ford van, I had the VW bus.

8. No one cares.

I ran for Oklahoma State at the time. I do recall the tough CU distance squad. Jerry Quiller was always friendly to all the distance runners in the then Big 8. Later, in 1975 I remember Quiller and what I thought was a VW Bus. Perhaps that was you. It was the 1975 Pan Am Trials Marathon in Flagstaff, AZ. I believe Ric Rojas was prostrate in the back following the race. Its been a long time...the images, events,and names all run together. Fun to try and remember however.

The Sandrock book has him moving there in the winter of 1970-1971, then going back to Gainesville for law school.

Then before the 1972 trials he goes to Vail for 6 weeks.

After graduating law school in 1974 he moved back to Boulder, but the book isn't clear if it was at the end of '74 or the beginning of '75.

Maybe he was referring to the first stint of training, in '70-'71?