CTHarrier wrote:
How are we missing Alberto Salazar - I understand his NYC 2:08:13 is a short course asterik, yet he ran multiple sub 2:09's in his career (Rotterdam, Fukuoka, Boston) if memory serves me...
Alberto Salazar was born in Cuba
So, he holds the Cuba-born record. And according to this thread he is not a real American like Meb, Legat, KK and Abdi. So, he doesn't count.
To illustrate the absurdity of this "American-born" notion, let's say that I was born to American parents while they were vactioning in Montreal for a weekend. Even if I never left America for the rest of my life, would I be excluded from setting an American-born record?
Alternatively, let's say Paul Tergat was born when his parents were vacationing in Florida. I think you get the point.
For most people the key is where did he develop as a runner, not where was he born. That is why Alberto and Meb are in one group, and KK and Lagat are in another.
miles of trials wrote:
What if Craig Mottram came to the US? His name is as "American" as any. Who has an American name anyways? I'm sure there are as many people in England right now with the name Billy Mills as there are in the US, and you can't get any more American than him.
You are absolutely right. If Craig Mottram applies for US Citizenship and cranks out a 12:55 5K many on this board will not complain that he is not a natural born citizen. Because he is white.
absurdity wrote:
To illustrate the absurdity of this "American-born" notion, let's say that I was born to American parents while they were vactioning in Montreal for a weekend. Even if I never left America for the rest of my life, would I be excluded from setting an American-born record?
Alternatively, let's say Paul Tergat was born when his parents were vacationing in Florida. I think you get the point.
If you were born to American parents then you are AMERICAN BORN. If Paul Tergat was born in America then he too would be AMERICAN BORN.
absurdity wrote:
To illustrate the absurdity of this "American-born" notion, let's say that I was born to American parents while they were vactioning in Montreal for a weekend.
I would say your mother is absurd for going on vacation while 9-months pregnant!
Burning When My Dixie Wrecked wrote:
absurdity wrote:To illustrate the absurdity of this "American-born" notion, let's say that I was born to American parents while they were vactioning in Montreal for a weekend.
I would say your mother is absurd for going on vacation while 9-months pregnant!
absudity,
I guess you are named after your mother?
Blank wrote:
If you were born to American parents then you are AMERICAN BORN. If Paul Tergat was born in America then he too would be AMERICAN BORN.
That's right -- you can be "American born" in the sense of entitled to American citizenship on birth, if at least one of your parents is an American citizen but you are born abroad (like Shorter) or at sea (not so common these days, but in the 19th century, not that rare).
Citizenship for children born abroad basically used to descend through the father only, but that changed. American women who married foreign men and lived abroad were typically regarded as having renounced their citizenship.
Birthright citizenship--anyone born on American soil can be an American citizen--is relatively rare internationally.
flightless wrote:
That's right -- you can be "American born" in the sense of entitled to American citizenship on birth, if at least one of your parents is an American citizen but you are born abroad (like Shorter) or at sea (not so common these days, but in the 19th century, not that rare).
Citizenship for children born abroad basically used to descend through the father only, but that changed. American women who married foreign men and lived abroad were typically regarded as having renounced their citizenship.
Birthright citizenship--anyone born on American soil can be an American citizen--is relatively rare internationally.
Duh.
Was anyone else struck by the name of the orginal poster:
d duke = david duke???
American born record is a legitimate stat.
Born as an American citizen like Shorter.
Jim Spivey holds the American born 1500m record at 3:31.01.
It is not as highly regarded as the "American Record" but both records are equally irrelevant.
Bernard Lagat who ran 3:26.34 in 2001 as a Kenyan, 3:27.40 in 2004 after becoming an American citizen but running for Kenya, holds the AR at 3:29.30 from 2005 after announcing that he was an American citizen.
The main records are World Records and Personal Records.
"I would say your mother is absurd for going on vacation while 9-months pregnant!"
It was a hypothetical, deliberately extreme situation. However, if it makes you happy, let's say I was born 3 weeks premature. Moreover, if it makes you happier, let's say that my hypothetical mother drank a lot of hypothetical red wine during her hypothetical pregnancy.
My point is that notions of nationality are not so easily tied to the physical location where one's head exits the birth canal or to the passports that one's parents carry. Consider a child born and raised in Germany to American passport-holding parents. These examples render the whole concept of an "American Born Record" completely absurd.
And yes, I think the name of the original poster was a reference to David Duke - who would seem to be a hero for some of the people on this board.
absurdity wrote:
It was a hypothetical, deliberately extreme situation.
In that case, your mother is just hypothetically absurd ;)
Humbled wrote:
Was anyone else struck by the name of the orginal poster:
d duke = david duke???
I though he had a st-st-stuttering pr-pr-pr-problem.
Mr. Tactics wrote:
CTHarrier wrote:How are we missing Alberto Salazar - I understand his NYC 2:08:13 is a short course asterik, yet he ran multiple sub 2:09's in his career (Rotterdam, Fukuoka, Boston) if memory serves me...
Alberto Salazar was born in Cuba
So, he holds the Cuba-born record. And according to this thread he is not a real American like Meb, Legat, KK and Abdi. So, he doesn't count.
but, but, but...his skin wasn't very dark!
Next thing I'll hear will be the fastest "American-Born" marathon time will be a "World Record" - that the rest of the world does not count - like the NBA, MLB calling themselves "World Champions". When it came to competing on a world stage, they could not hold their own...
So I suppose everyone believes that all those Kenyans who defected to Qatar for money are Qataris, right? Guess that means the country of Qatar produces some of the best runners in the world.
OK, seriously. All these posts are one person, right? There can't possibly be this many people spending this much time on this subject?
Is Chicago Marathon on television, What channel in Chicago?
Jesus, what a bunch of hair-splitting xenophobes. There's the American world best, the world best, and beyond tht making further sub-categories to shoot for just screams "we can't make either of those so lets invent a category we can compete in." I'm the best runner on my block, but big f------ deal. If you break it down enough everyone gets a title, but not the one that counts. The fact that people have to ask who it is shows it's obscurity and pointlessness.