Moulten blows up at Steamtown Marathon

AH wrote:

Some of you really need to run the course before running your mouth. I ran the race too hoping the downhill would make it fast. I kept my HR low the first half and was never working, yet my legs were trashed just like his by halfway through. Casey went out for even splits, which is conservative considering the 800+ ft drop in the first half of the race. A few people handled it well enough to finish well; a few of us blew up from it. A moderate amount of downhill may be helpful but I could run a lot faster on a flatter course as I'd still have quads left for the second half.

Sounds like only a few people actually to race on a downhill course, and you weren't one of them.

Letsrunner wrote:

Sounds like only a few people actually to race on a downhill course, and you weren't one of them.

Sounds like only a few people on here know how to write coherent sentences on here, and you aren't one of them. Your post makes absolutely no sense, but I doubt the thought that led to it did either.

If you meant "only a few people race downhill", well, I did in fact race. If you meant "only a few people train for downhill", well, there are no 1000ft mountains to run down around here so I can only do what I can with 50ft-ers.

The fact is, you likely have never run a reasonably fast marathon, flat uphill or down, and are talking out of your @$$. The amount of immature, pointless animousity in a letsrun post is usually inversely proportional to the actual experience/ability of the runner.

WTF is "Moulten"?

I was at the 10-mile mark and I felt sorry for this guy. He was still cruising but he was WAY ahead of the rest of the field. No matter how fit you are, it's got to be tough racing 26.2 miles alone. Hope more sub-2:20 people give this course a try in the future. The first half is gorgeous (downhill on back roads with beautiful foliage); the second half is more urban with good crowd support. It's a very well-organized marathon. Highly recommended.

spectator wrote:

I was at the 10-mile mark and I felt sorry for this guy. He was still cruising but he was WAY ahead of the rest of the field. No matter how fit you are, it's got to be tough racing 26.2 miles alone. Hope more sub-2:20 people give this course a try in the future. The first half is gorgeous (downhill on back roads with beautiful foliage); the second half is more urban with good crowd support. It's a very well-organized marathon. Highly recommended.

The course is pretty scenic, the organization top notch. Probably one of the best organized and run races I've ever done. They had as many volunteers as runners.

To me, it's no big deal that he's dropped out of a couple of marathons. Most marathoners, if they're any good, learn to bail out of a bad race to minimize damage and down time. Usually, it's the slower runners who get caught up in the idea that it's important to finish every marathon that you start.

I do find it significant, however, that he selected Steamtown, and apparently did so because he thought that it would be even faster than Austin. When you start on the path of running ever-steeper downhill courses to get questionable PRs, it's hard to stop. In my book, he's a 2:20 marathoner (with potential) until he runs faster on a record-quality course.

Since Austin is apparently becoming a record-quality course in 2007, it will be interesting to see who shows up, and what times they record. My guess is that we will see a lot of people bail on the race, despite their claims that the attraction to the race this year and in the past was not the ridiculously downhill course, but rather was the race organizers' support for American running.

For the record, I'm pretty sure Steamtown was the first DNF for Moulton. VCM 2005 was his debut marathon. It's true that he blew up at 23 miles and had to walk/jog in to the finish, but he still finished 3rd in 2:30:28 after being on sub 2:20 pace through half (and almost 2:00 up on Wardian at the half). Casey seems to have learned a lot in each of his marathons and I expect his best days are ahead of him.

--VCM 2005 went out hard and didn't take fluids at the aid stations. Blew up but got to the finish for a paycheck.

--Chicago 2005 ran with Deena Kastor through 30k and then pushed the last 10k to finish a minute up on Deena in 2:20

--Austin 2006 fed off the Chicago momentum along with his brother Patrick and Nate Jenkins and all 3 got 2:15

--Steamtown 2006 out hard and DNF

Anybody else who hammered their first 4 marathons at age 24 and popped a 2:20 and a 2:15 feel free to be critical of the start to Moulton's marathon career. Me, I'd rather see him pushing the envelope to see how good he can be and if a DNF happens on occasion so be it.

Was that his brother that DNF at Boston?

You people have impressive nameless balls. Here is a guy rolling the old school miles and racing strategies, and you overthink it. Put down the powerbar. Put down your new dry-wicking shorts. Grow some nuts and log the miles, log off the high speed internet, and speak with your legs.

Jason

Why do people on this board go to such great lengths to critize the grammar of others, and respond with worse grammar? At least do your homework....or maybe you aren't smart enough to realize how stupid you are.

If anybody posting has had the pleasure of speaking with Casey Moulton they would know that he is a refreshing throwback to the days of running til' you drop, simply for the sheer pleasure of testing one's own mettle. There are a handful of people that I personally have met that are "Quentin Cassidy-esque" and possess that spirit that stories are made of. Wasn't Pre always criticized for his front running and sometime unorthodox strategies? Sometimes being outside of the box is what breeds greatness.

d2xccoach wrote:

Me, I'd rather see him pushing the envelope to see how good he can be and if a DNF happens on occasion so be it.

I agree with that. At the same time, I think that he should be "pushing the envelope" on marathon courses that are taken seriously at the higher levels of the sport. Of course, he's still young, and he has some years ahead of him to pop some fast times on record-quality courses and against high-caliber competition.

Jeez, he ran Chicago, and then at Austin against some of this country's best young marathoners and then ran in Boston this year (and a late DNF as someone missed earlier). As you noted, he's young in marathoning context, so please get off his back about not choosing more competitive marathons - especially because for the most part he is.

Also, want to second Run7's comments about him being a nice person. I pains me to see him catching crap from anonymous posters. I don't necessarily agree with his race tactics, but I sure as hell respect them and the courage he shows by laying it on the line every time. To say, "F the competition, I'm racing the course and the clock today," for an entire marathon, is crazy and awesome at the same time.

Keep up the good work, Casey.

Wrong wrote:

The kid runs hard from the get go. He will hang with any pace until his legs drop off. I kinda like his style.

And that my friends is why the US sucks internationally is distance running.

We spend all our time rediculing everyone that doesn't "go hard or go home" but forget that nearly eveyerone that does sucks at distance. Go hard from the get go is for sprinters, but distance runners that try that on a world stage get buried on the home stretch.

Let's look at real successes:

Khalid practices his game plan BEFORE HAND relentlessly and on race day sits and waits. Sets world record.

Deena practices pace relentlessly and comes from behind to win trials and get silver.

Meb practices pace relentlessly and comes from behind to get silver

and then..

Pre goes balls out and gets 4th.

Blake Russell (love ya, but gotta be honest) leads for 18 miles and gets 4th.

Sell leads for 16 miles and gets milque toast.

Anyone that "goes for it" on race day thinking it's going to "be the day" without knowing that from practicing that going in is overexcited or mearly delusional. Doing that time after time thinking things will "come together" without any firm indication beforehand it basically stupid. It takes guts to slam your hand in a door a few times too, but who recommends it as a strategy? This is racing, not Jackass II.

There's one simple racing tenant for distance, "Don't do anything new on race day". Old socks, old clothes, old shoes, OLD TACTICS. Practice, practice, practice, and as much as I hate to use the term stay the course.

There's something to admire when someone does what they practiced, things didn't work out, and they stuck it out hoping for the best. There's something to admire in someone that shows up at the start line clueless as a newborn and blows a nut 2/3 of the way through. However, someone that makes a habit of it needs a talking to, not encouragement.

Casey is a beast and I have nothing but respect for the kid.

I have "raced" him various times and have always been impressed. I was racing VCM when he drove away from us at the gun. I was like, WTF is this guy doing, but he still outlasted me.

I remember thinking he was a relay guy when I saw him coming back during that out and back section of the course. He was like 2 minutes on the front pack.

I like his attitude and style. He trains his ass off, and I cannot believe any one of you would talk crap about him. The kid is a legend in the making...

2:15 is effing fast, I don't care if Austin is a quick course. So is London.

It's so obvious and easy that even Keith Stone has results of his own to back up his criticisms.

I think I'll take Bill Rodgers' thoughts on the topics over some high-and-mighty wannabe surrogate for Brian Sell's wife:

"If you want to win a race you have to go a little berserk."

I've finished a distant second to Casey Moulton more times than I want to remember, since very early on in his running career. Let's remember that Casey isn't exactly a marathon running veteran quite yet. He's raced quite frequently--and if you're going for a sub-2:15 marathon, running 5 of those beasts on top of his other stellar road races in such a short period might not be the best way to give him a fighting chance.

Casey's a guy who, despite being one of the best in the nation, is still humbled by the fact that races fly him from NH to the starting line. A total class act. He also happens to be a ballsy runner unafraid to get every last second out of himself, whether he's doing Chicago, Boston, or your low-key five-miler. As these guys have said already, he's just 24 and has, as baseball guys say, "tremendous upside." I hope he takes enough time off from racing the big ones so he can give 'em hell at the Trials.

Do any of you know what the difference between bonking at 20 and running a great race is????

8 seconds per mile!!!!!

Very easy to go over the line with all the variables on race day. Temperature is usually the main culprit. Austin was very cool and ideal for a marathon. A slight increase in temperature is easily worth a few seconds per mile.

Someday this guy's not gonna break and run an amazing time. You gotta respect that he goes after it a 26.2 mile race. I don't think this deserves a post to make fun of it