Jones could sue Letsrun for spreading damaging misinformation

The point of the A test is to (cheaply and efficiently) minimize the risk of missing an athlete who HAS DOPED.

The point of the B test is to narrow this intentionally too large pool of POSSIBLE DOPERS to minimize the risk of falsely accusing an athlete who HAS NOT DOPED.

webby wrote:

The point of the A test is to (cheaply and efficiently) minimize the risk of missing an athlete who HAS DOPED.

The point of the B test is to narrow this intentionally too large pool of POSSIBLE DOPERS to minimize the risk of falsely accusing an athlete who HAS NOT DOPED.

Close. The point of the A test is efficiency of the process. The point of the B test is transparancy and due process.

The B test is the only one that matters.

WDOWTIN wrote:

This is a great site that really supports the running community as it relates to having a public forum about running and to a lesser extent biking yet you better believe that most competitive US runners of color (sprints-distance) know about the bias of this site.

Agreed. I'm one of them. This is what I posted elsewhere, but I'll go ahead and spam:

Don't be too surprised not to see an apology from the site. Letsrun's "editorial" stance sometimes seems to reflect its readship as demonstrated by posters: often jealous, often racist, and not accustomed to being challenged.

Letsrun called Jones a "drug cheat" without proof. This is clear-cut libel, and if the site wasn't such a small fish she would successfully sue.

Wow. what a just world. If anyone was getting sued here it should be marion. She freudulantly STOLE thousands of dollars by being a drug cheat. I couldn't care less about this test, she is filthy by her connections. I'm an elite runner and know enough from my contacts to say for a fact Marion has ALWAYS used PEDs. The only time she didn't was while pregnant.

actually internet slandering is becoming a big issue - there is a prominent city official in pittsburgh who just won a case against an internet message board (well the company and also the people on it) b/c the people posting there spread half-truths and were damaging his career. seriously, it's just a matter of time....

frankly it's sad really...here this is supposed to be the hardcore fans of the sport and 90% of the posts here just attack anonymously for no good reason at all, or even sling drug accusations without knowing a thing about how a drug works or about the person. no one the sport is fading from public view. who would want to cheer for a bunch of assholes?

oh riiight you're an elite runner. evidently don't have a lot of balls to come out and indict her and get back the money. even if you were an elite runner.

tell Marion Jones to file suit against me 1st. i've got a counter suit ready for her.

thats the beauty in our justice system. jury's are required to hear all the BS but can make a decision on whatever they chose to.

i served on a jury here not too long ago, i know how jurors think. it wouldnt be very hard to take her money.

Gary, IN wrote:

actually internet slandering is becoming a big issue - there is a prominent city official in pittsburgh who just won a case against an internet message board (well the company and also the people on it) b/c the people posting there spread half-truths and were damaging his career. seriously, it's just a matter of time....

frankly it's sad really...here this is supposed to be the hardcore fans of the sport and 90% of the posts here just attack anonymously for no good reason at all, or even sling drug accusations without knowing a thing about how a drug works or about the person. no one the sport is fading from public view. who would want to cheer for a bunch of assholes?

this message board going down would be the best news ever for the american talent pool.

think of the number of people who would suddenly relize they have no life, and may as well pursue the only activity that they dont completely suck at.

Not A Doctor wrote:

According to WADA/USADA the b-sample is most important sample. That is the sample that determines if one dopes. The a-sample means nothing.

The a-sample is done in an assembly line fashion and subject to errors. When it is positive, they have their best lab technicians carefully screen the b-sample in the company of witnesses for the ahtlete. They are very careful with the b-sample, less so with the a-sample.

So, a negative b-sample means everything.

Thank you.

from the book Game of Shadows...

"Hunter said he watched Jones inject herself with drugs at the residence they shared in Australia. After an injection, Jones would flush the syringe down the toilet. The steroids caused Jones to break out in acne, Hunter said. To hide it, she began wearing makeup, something she had never done before.

"... Conte also appeared to be pre-testing Jones to ensure she wouldn't fail a drug test at the Games. According to BALCO documents, a urine sample from Jones was sent by overnight mail to Quest Laboratories in San Diego two days before the Opening Ceremonies."

And there was this: "Like Montgomery, Marion Jones continued to use banned drugs in 2001, according to accounts by Conte and Hunter and BALCO documents with her name on them. On April 21, 2001, Conte said he met with Jones at the Embassy Suites hotel in Covina in Southern California. Jones came to his room so he could show her how to inject growth hormone with an new instrument, a $1,000 NovoPen injector. Conte said he watched Jones inject 4.5 units of Growth into her quadriceps."

What's more, the book detailed, "The doping calendars laid out, via Conte's alphabetical code, Jones's use of The Clear, EPO, Growth and insulin."

hate to say it folks...

but this site and others like it...are the reason why running has suddenly gotten better in America...

Without this site and other ones like it...America would still suck at distance running....

bullshit. it's because people actually started running more miles and high schoolers took things more seriously. the young guys who are good now started training seriously and hard BEFORE this site was the fixture people purport it to be. if you have to say a website helped, it is Allison Wade's sites with all the pictures and interviews of high school to elite runners. that is what motivates people. there is nothing of that there.

and WHO might you be Mr/Ms ELITE? if you're so very certain with your accusations and as full of jealousy as you seem to be, why not take your bloody facts to the proper officials? don't think it's in the cards though, you obtained your facts through gossip forums like most others, correct?

NativeSon wrote:

the resident skeptic wrote:

Who "WRONGED" her? We discussed information that was made public.

Resident skeptic

There are so many people who crucified Marion here. They took her to Golgotha and nailed her on the cross.

I truly hope all these guys would just do the honourable thing and just swallow their STUPID PRIDE and apologise. It is not asking too much.

Yes, Marion should sue all these fellows. I truly hope she does.

They took her to Golgotha and nailed her on the cross

didn't the same thing happen to some other dusty footer?

dr x wrote:

bullshit. it's because people actually started running more miles and high schoolers took things more seriously. the young guys who are good now started training seriously and hard BEFORE this site was the fixture people purport it to be. if you have to say a website helped, it is Allison Wade's sites with all the pictures and interviews of high school to elite runners. that is what motivates people. there is nothing of that there.

Who is Wade?

Sorry, but I can't imagine a lawyer ever purusing a lawsuit for defamation. Truth of the matter asserted would always be a defense.

dr x-

Running is not getting better in the U.S. Take away Deena Drossin and Bernard Lagat, and we are still ridiculously bad on the international level. Let me remind you that the U.S. men tied for their second to worst team placing in history at the World XC championships. If there is one indicator or how we stack up on the world level, it is the one discipline that brings all kinds of distance runners together---xc.

We suck.

13:00 for the 5k is 100 meters off of the world record...

27:00 for the 10k puts you 250 meters of the world recoord...

....and we don't have anybody even close to those times.

Unless we count the number of individuals running in our country as and indicator of success, we are failing.

NativeSon wrote:

the resident skeptic wrote:

Who "WRONGED" her? We discussed information that was made public.

Resident skeptic

There are so many people who crucified Marion here. They took her to Golgotha and nailed her on the cross.

I truly hope all these guys would just do the honourable thing and just swallow their STUPID PRIDE and apologise. It is not asking too much.

Yes, Marion should sue all these fellows. I truly hope she does.

Some people, including myself, made accusations about Marion Jones due to the known connections she had with many dirty athletes/drug providers. I did not damage her reputation. The Brojos did not damage her reputation. SHE damaged HER OWN reputation by being acquainted with such a shady crowd. Throughout time people have been judged by the masses in accordance to whom they congregate with. If she was truly worried about her reputation then she wouldn't have had connections with these people.

YOU owe an apology to ANYONE who has ever been crucified by making such a ridiculous and ignorant analogy. You sicken me. Would you care to downplay the significance of any pains endured by other religions' saviors while you are at it? Are you the equivalent of Ghandi because you once skipped a meal? Or am I equivalent of Muhammad because I think a donkey talked to me in my sleep once? What Marion Jones has been put through is far from a crucifixion, in any sense of the word.

She doesn't have a case and would waste her money pursuing one against anybody who talked about information published in a newspaper. She also wouldn't have a case against the media, which includes Letsrun.com. There are plenty of thick and dusty volumes of U.S. Supreme Court decisions that address these points.

Here are some points I would argue to the Letsrun.com jury in the hypothetical case of Marion Jones' reputation. I'd probably shuffle the order on the day of closing arguments.

Note: Her circumstances boil down to personal resposibility. She chose to associate with nefarious characters and her reputation (and Prada pocket book) has suffered as a result. Had she sought my counsel I'd tell her, lose the losers, you have too much to lose and nothing to gain.

1. CJ Hunter was a jilted, wife abusing (abusers are by nature controlling and vicious, so that he attacked Marion where it hurt her the most, now that he couldn't control and beat her anymore, her running career, is not surprising), performance enhancing drug user who had been caught and offered immunity and/or a reduced sentence to implicate his FORMER wife. The weight of his testimony is slight despite that he tips the scale at 300lbs +. He had a motive to lie to get back at the woman who left him. He had a motive to lie to obtain a reduced sentence or immunity. He had a motive to lie to the authors of the book because they paid him.

2. Victor Conte was a drug pusher who had been caught and offered immunity and/or a reduced sentence to implicate people. He had a motive to lie to receive a lighter sentence. Funny, some of the people to whom he supplied drugs failed drug tests, but others to whom he says he supplied drugs didn't (Marion). Wasn't Conte supplying the same drugs? How was it that CJ came up dirty (failed drug test), but his wife-at-the-time Marion didn't? According to CJ and Conte, after they were both caught, Marion used copious amounts of drugs too. Yet, she hasn't failed a drug test. At the very least you have to doubt the veracity of Hunter's and Conte's testimony against Jones. Afterall, one's a confirmed and proven drug user and the other is a confirmed and proven drug pusher. People who engage in this type of behavior cut corners, bend the rules and flat out lie and cheat. So, why would you believe them now?

3. Trevor Graham engaged in a common tactic that children and siblings learn early on in their development. It's called passing the buck and/or deflection (sending the syringe in the mail). It's the classic 'I didn't do it she did' explanation when one is caught red handed. When the suspicion is focused on you, direct the attention you're receiving to someone else (Conte). People accused of crimes do it quite often: 'it wasn't me, it was the other guy'.

4. Tim Montgomery, similar arguments as above.

5. All that who've implicated Marion, similar arguments as above.

6. I watched Marion run as a high schooler -- from 9th grade to 12th grade. She was usually several meters (like 10 - 15) ahead of the competition in her races in the big meets against the fastest girls. It's not surprising that she would continue to develop into the fastest woman. Drugs did not play a part in this. Just natural talent and hard work.

7. The late Ken Lay was a good friend of George W. Bush. Does that mean that Bush is guilty of the crimes Lay committed?

8. The Saudi Royal Family rules their country in such a manner that the UN has declared it a Human Rights violator. The Saudi Royal Family is a member of the Carlisle Group. The Bushes are members of the same group. Does that mean the Bushes commit human rights violations?

9. Michael Milken committed several white collar crimes. Now he's a professor at UCLA. Does that mean that UCLA has committed several white collar crimes as well? Same arguments for Martha Stewart. Does that mean that the company which airs her show also engages in insider trading?

10. Finally, if you attended college or if you attended high school you probably had some friends who did some illegal things, drinking under age, smoking pot, maybe even using cocaine. Does this mean that you also did these things?

The points here ladies and gentlemen are that Marion has not failed a drug test. Despite what your opinion is of her poor decision to associate with nefarious characters, from the wife abuser drug user CJ Hunter to the drug pusher Victor Conte to the suspected drug user Tim Montgomery to the drug pusher coach Trevor Graham, you cannot allow your opinion on this point to influence your judgment of her reputation. Your judgment must be based on the facts about her drug use. Again, the most critical fact is that she has not failed a drug test. She may have failed the character selection test (i.e., she has just failed miserably in selecting quality people in her life), but we're all guilty of this to some degree or another. Look at the Bushes for instance, UCLA, and whatever network carries Martha Stewart's show. Marion is not guilty as charged and if you use your common sense and logic and pay particular attention to the testimony of the persons against her and their motives to lie, you will see this truth.

The above doesn't mean she didn't cheat. She very well may have. There just isn't enough credible to support this charge. The arguments above are simply based on the facts and strengths and weaknesses of the case against her. The case against her is weak, despite the evidence. The case is weak because it is based on the testimony of incredible witnesses -- Hunter, Conte, Montgomery.